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Silver Dollar City & Celebration City Discussion => Construction/Rumors => Topic started by: Dewayne on July 06, 2015, 10:31:31 PM

Title: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Dewayne on July 06, 2015, 10:31:31 PM
ADMIN EDIT:
Our system of development threads is getting a little convoluted, but perhaps carving one more to the mix will help sort things out a little better.

This thread is for targeted speculation on development projects at SDC past the current year's cycle. Topics such as the "5-year plan" or long term projects are welcome here, but keep rumors/construction talk about the current year's developments in the other thread.

For posting cool attraction concepts or ideas you think would go well in SDC, post here: http://sdcfans.com/forums/index.php?topic=130.0

For discussion on the current developments, see the current yearly project thread at the top of this board.

_____________________________________________________________________

Original Post:

When I talked to the Woman running Wings of Wonder yesterday, she heard that they would be making a circle from GE to FL with another guest train crossing across the tracks. I said, I did see construction vehicles over there 1 day, but people said they were just resurfacing the employee parking lot, and they moved the cars back in place once they were finished, so that idea was out for me. She said, well that idea isnt totally out of the picture. I said, that is true. So, the questions are: Are they planning on making a circle here? What rides will be back here? What kind of rides do you think would go nicely here? Where are they moving the Employee Parking to?

She likes my idea of turning HDH into a peaceful park like CC had.
Title: to merge
Post by: Swoosh on July 06, 2015, 11:12:42 PM
No.
That project isn't even on the radar for the 5 year plan.
Sorry. She was mistaken.
Title: to merge
Post by: History Buff on July 06, 2015, 11:15:44 PM
The appeal of GE and FL for parents is that they only have one entrance/exit for the kids.  Traffic is not so bad in either area that a relief route is needed.  I'm not saying it would never happen, but there are some behind the scenes areas that would have to be moved for this to ever happen, including but not limited to parade staging.
Title: to merge
Post by: Dewayne on July 07, 2015, 10:58:52 AM
True HB. Swoosh, what 5 year plan? I have only seen 5 year plans for what people on here want or think will happen. I never seen an official 5 year plan from any SDC employee stating exactly what will happen because like people on here have said, They dont want people to know what will happen next until they are ready to start construction.
Title: to merge
Post by: Tmboote on July 07, 2015, 11:13:59 AM
Swoosh knows things that most people don't.
Title: to merge
Post by: History Buff on July 07, 2015, 11:27:10 AM
Employees are not privy to strategic capital investment planning.  They are subject to much of the same rumors and armchair dreams as we are.
Title: to merge
Post by: shavethewhales on July 07, 2015, 12:28:37 PM
No.
That project isn't even on the radar for the 5 year plan.
Sorry. She was mistaken.

None of us have any idea what the 5-year plan is. It's time for you to pull back on this "I know something you don't" game again.
Title: to merge
Post by: Tmboote on July 07, 2015, 12:33:15 PM
No.
That project isn't even on the radar for the 5 year plan.
Sorry. She was mistaken.

None of us have any idea what the 5-year plan is. It's time for you to pull back on this "I know something you don't" game again.

Even those who "know" don't know, because of how often things change in the amusement park industry.
Title: to merge
Post by: Dewayne on July 07, 2015, 01:06:44 PM
Exactly Tmboote. Shave, what game? There never was a game. All I know is what I hear because I ask the questions that most people dont, like How and Why. Im sure you know just as much as me because you probably ask the same questions as I do, too.
Title: to merge
Post by: chittlins on July 07, 2015, 01:18:28 PM
Exactly Tmboote. Shave, what game? There never was a game. All I know is what I hear because I ask the questions that most people dont, like How and Why. Im sure you know just as much as me because you probably ask the same questions as I do, too.

What did the Dippin' Dots stand say?
Title: to merge
Post by: shavethewhales on July 07, 2015, 01:23:59 PM
I wasn't talking to you Laroy   ::) Look at who I quoted.
Title: to merge
Post by: Dewayne on July 07, 2015, 01:34:50 PM
oh sorry Shave  ;D lol.

Chittlins, what Dippin Dots guy?? idk who that is
Title: to merge
Post by: Swoosh on July 07, 2015, 05:06:50 PM
No.
That project isn't even on the radar for the 5 year plan.
Sorry. She was mistaken.

None of us have any idea what the 5-year plan is. It's time for you to pull back on this "I know something you don't" game.

Actually there are those here that DO - you're not one of them but that's not my problem.
Get off your high horse Steve.  Your attitude is not needed and definitely wasn't solicited.
Title: to merge
Post by: History Buff on July 07, 2015, 05:10:40 PM
It's all a game anyway.  Breathe.  Count to 10.  Now that we know everyone's opinions - again - let's get back to the thread.
Title: to merge
Post by: Swoosh on July 07, 2015, 05:15:30 PM
I'm just tired of him contradicting people when has no clue what he is talking about. Several of us posters discussed his attitude this past weekend and several who used to post on here stated that was one of the main reasons they don't post news anymore on here.

It's one thing if he actually knew something but most of the time he doesn't and it gets old

Screw it. I'll just let everyone be blindsided by the news I received. That's the way he wants it. I've had it with him. 
Title: to merge
Post by: shavethewhales on July 07, 2015, 05:44:27 PM
I've had it with your attitude as well Swoosh. We've been over this time and time again; it gets old. Every time an employee slips you a little nugget of potential info that may or may not be valid you launch into this big superiority complex with everyone else and act all coy for months like you are suddenly some kind of insider. I've been around long enough that I've seen most of those rumors fall flat anyway for one reason or another. I get enough grief from the park and those associated with it over the stuff posted on these boards, and you've always fanned the flames whenever you could. I don't want to deal with it anymore.

We've been posting on the same boards now for what, 10+ years? Your little insider games have gotten you kicked off of practically every enthusiast board except this one... until now.

Title: to merge
Post by: Tmboote on July 07, 2015, 06:58:47 PM
So, our attraction ideas. I'm still waiting for a B&M Wing Coaster.
Title: to merge
Post by: History Buff on July 07, 2015, 07:05:32 PM
That went south rather quickly.

Why are you guys allowing little comments to accelerate your moods so easily?  Most of us understand Swoosh's and Laroy's personalities.  This world is already in too much turmoil to allow such little things to make us explode.

Heard something from the Wings of Wonder lady?  Let's talk about it without being so superior.  It's never been anything but a speculation game anyway.

Heard something about a five-year plan and want to play games with the way it's revealed?  I'm OK with that, too.  We can talk about your hints and innuendos and have fun with it.

Want to maintain order on the site and stop the petty arguing?  It's all good, but let's be quick to listen, slow to talk, and slow to anger.

We do not have to allow things to escalate to this point though.  I think most of us are here to feel like we have some insider information, but we have to take it all with a grain of salt.  Silver Dollar City is not a mom-and-pop operation any more, and decisions are only made with the short-term bottom line in mind, so we can probably look for the theme to be compromised more and more in the coming years, until the unborn children of the next generation will never know what the theme even was for the first 50 years.
Title: to merge
Post by: Tmboote on July 07, 2015, 07:10:32 PM
^ Well said, HB.
Title: to merge
Post by: Wildfire on July 07, 2015, 07:14:35 PM
I don't post much but check in often.  I personally enjoy the little nuggets of info Swoosh drops.  I do think he has some insider info and I get a kick out of the speculation it creates.  I think everyone needs to calm down and quit taking themselves so seriously.
Title: to merge
Post by: History Buff on July 07, 2015, 07:16:10 PM
^ Well said, HB.

I really don't know what to say, Tmboote.
Title: to merge
Post by: Tmboote on July 07, 2015, 07:21:31 PM
^ Well said, HB.

I really don't know what to say, Tmboote.

Me either. We just need to get back on topic.

I don't post much but check in often.  I personally enjoy the little nuggets of info Swoosh drops.  I do think he has some insider info and I get a kick out of the speculation it creates.  I think everyone needs to calm down and quit taking themselves so seriously.

Agreed.
Title: to merge
Post by: shavethewhales on July 07, 2015, 07:40:43 PM
I let so much slide on these boards, but I'm not going to sit back and be disrespected like that on my own forums, not after all the discussions we've had on this issue over the years. Swoosh knows better.

There are two reasons why I don't want anyone acting all high and mighty like they know "secret" information that us plebs aren't important enough to be privy to (besides just the general annoyance):

1. It reflects badly on some of the employees when it looks like there's been an info leak and can cause innocent people behind the scenes a lot of grief. After the Outlaw Run announcement leak conundrum I made a decision that this website will work with the interests of the park in mind and refrain from overtly spreading information that isn't supposed to be out there. I've always harped on the difference between speculation and leaks for a reason.

2. Even if there is real information that can be shared or alluded too, it is often wrong or ends up getting changed quickly anyway. We've seen a number of big potential projects come and go, even when the park was on the verge of actual construction. Sometimes it all ends up just being rumors anyway - in fact sometimes certain people that work at the park will even try spread false rumors just to see where they go. Stuff happens and a lot of times it's better to wait for confirmation instead of building up a hype storm/bust cycle that pisses off the PTB.

Now one of the reasons everyone is a bit worked up at this moment is that there are some big scary rumors being whispered around behind the scenes, and at this point I'm fairly sure that it is all either a complete misdirection or simply yet another concept pitch that will end up not happening (probably the former). If it does happen, I'd rather wait for confirmation and respond appropriately one way or another as a community so that our voices are heard and understood instead of starting up a hype storm and potentially loosing all credibility.
Title: to merge
Post by: Gilligan on July 07, 2015, 08:37:25 PM
Let's all have a frozen lemonade and remain friends.
Title: to merge
Post by: History Buff on July 07, 2015, 08:41:08 PM
 ;)
Title: to merge
Post by: sanddunerider on July 07, 2015, 08:42:12 PM
Let's all have a frozen lemonade and remain friends.

And maybe some Kettle Corn, Please.
Title: to merge
Post by: chittlins on July 07, 2015, 08:43:23 PM


Now one of the reasons everyone is a bit worked up at this moment is that there are some big scary rumors being whispered around behind the scenes, and at this point I'm fairly sure that it is all either a complete misdirection or simply yet another concept pitch that will end up not happening (probably the former). If it does happen, I'd rather wait for confirmation and respond appropriately one way or another as a community so that our voices are heard and understood instead of starting up a hype storm and potentially loosing all credibility.

Dad gum it, you just did it too

Outlaw Run was their own fault, no one hacked that layout leak. We shared what was out there. It's no different when a new Apple product gets had when it goes to FEC for approval. Or Uni project gets found out when plans are submitted to city planning in a city with properly transparent doc management. The Volcano Bay waterpark was know for months on end due to that before announcement.

Now, your post alludes to scary, as in a sale.of the company? Wholesale gutting of theme? Major ride demo to classics we want refreshed not razed? But, now we worry.
Title: to merge
Post by: Junior, too! on July 07, 2015, 08:46:05 PM
I find it funny so many get passionate about what may be next on the drawing board. When I worked on park, I never thought about the issue, when I would go out in March each year to pick up my costumes for summer, I'd usually ask my bosses what was new for the year, then I'd swing by where the construction had taken place over winter. Times have changed, lol... :)
Title: to merge
Post by: Gilligan on July 07, 2015, 08:46:44 PM
Let's all have a frozen lemonade and remain friends.

And maybe some Kettle Corn, Please.

Okay!   ;D
Title: to merge
Post by: chittlins on July 07, 2015, 08:48:40 PM
Let's all have a frozen lemonade and remain friends.

And maybe some Kettle Corn, Please.
(http://www.cbc.ca/strombo/content/images/mj-popcorn.gif)
Title: to merge
Post by: chittlins on July 07, 2015, 08:50:52 PM
I find it funny so many get passionate about what may be next on the drawing board. When I worked on park, I never thought about the issue, when I would go out in March each year to pick up my costumes for summer, I'd usually ask my bosses what was new for the year, then I'd swing by where the construction had taken place over winter. Times have changed, lol... :)

Internet, instant info...

I just like to yack.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Dewayne on July 07, 2015, 11:24:26 PM
Wtf??? omg!!! there are so many questions running thru my head at this point.

Shave, did you do this? Did you start this thread? You have amazed me again and I didnt know it was possible. I dont get what this thread is for.....but ok....
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: shavethewhales on July 07, 2015, 11:39:25 PM
Go back and read the first post where I made the edit. I messed around with merging this topic into a new one, but the forum software is a little rusty sometimes.

Anyway, just so we're clear, the "5 year plan" I keep referring to is an industry line that gets thrown around occasionally. Sometimes you'll hear parks refer to things in their 5-year plan, implying they start work on projects well before we ever get around to speculating on them. I believe Cedar Point is the park that really popularized the phrase because they always like to talk about how they're already working on the next coaster.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: History Buff on July 08, 2015, 01:09:15 AM
I would imagine planning goes deeper than just five years.  Things probably get sketchy the further out, but they have to have some ideas cooking.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Runner1960 on July 08, 2015, 06:54:38 AM
Before I post this let me say it is a total rumor and did not come from a employee. I think this has also been mentioned in another area of the board.

Rumor from a friend in Branson is Mamby wants to takeover HFEC and merge it with Sea World. Not sure if it would be a hostile bid or if the board would be willing to sell. 

Lots of reasons to believe this is not true though. But also lots of reasons to believe it could happen.

Hopefully this is what this thread is for. If not feel free to delete it.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: chittlins on July 08, 2015, 07:48:26 AM
Before I post this let me say it is a total rumor and did not come from a employee. I think this has also been mentioned in another area of the board.

Rumor from a friend in Branson is Mamby wants to takeover HFEC and merge it with Sea World. Not sure if it would be a hostile bid or if the board would be willing to sell. 

Lots of reasons to believe this is not true though. But also lots of reasons to believe it could happen.

Hopefully this is what this thread is for. If not feel free to delete it.


His taking over SeaWorld would naturally lead to that kind of speculation. It's the type of diversification SEAS needs. I , outside looking in, would think priority #1 is patching the holes in their current vessel from all the attacks and steaming it out of drydock first though.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: shavethewhales on July 08, 2015, 07:53:28 AM
^^^Oh yeah, it's probably more of an enthusiast term at this point. Some stuff that gets announced seems like it's been on the planning boards for ages, while other things get picked up and planned within a pretty short period of time. It's all variable, of course, but the phrase has stuck.

^^I still think that one's just plain funny. There are also those who always think Six Flags/Disney/Cedar Fair is about to buy the park. Branson locals always come up with the least creative rumors. ::)
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: chittlins on July 08, 2015, 08:58:36 AM
Looks like the rumor made it to TPR. Delete this but if you wanted to know...

 I imagine they'll yank it down.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: shavethewhales on July 08, 2015, 12:46:00 PM
Yeah, looks like Swoosh is out there posting it around now.

Discuss it all you want, it's just a rumor - just don't act like you're part of the super special inside club for knowing about it  ::)

I don't really buy into it at this point. I can certainly see them doing some sweeping redevelopments of various areas of the park over the next 10-20 years, that much has always been inevitable. The only thing that should be worrisome is the rumor of Flooded Mine being completely taken out, which IMO would be worse than loosing FiTH (not that I don't love that ride almost as much). FM is even more richly detailed than FiTH, and is a rare example of a ride (other than trains) that everyone from toddlers to grandmas can ride together at once. Almost all of my memories of the ride include riding it with family that don't usually ride things. FM has had falling ridership, due at least in part to the fact that the entrance is hidden and the ride is not publicized at all. Sometimes parks do this on purpose to let a ride fade out before removal (see Thunder Road at Carowinds). That said, I don't think they're in a place where they want to remove a classic like FM for a coaster. The park knows what works, and they went to quite a bit of effort with Fireman's Landing, for example, to appease fans both old and new. I don't think they are going to rip out part of the heart of SDC for a coaster they can put somewhere else.

Rumors like this come and go - we've seen our share of them on these boards over the years. Sometimes they are based on actual planning going on in the background (which is always subject to a lot of change), but more often it ends up being fanboys/employees stirring up ideas until they become rumor. Even if this is an example of the former, I think they'd still relent and push the coaster project somewhere else in the park. Did you guys know that they originally talked about putting GE right in the middle of the park where River Blast is now? Stuff like that happens all the time. Nothing is really off limits when you are in the research/planning stage with this type of development.

I just don't want there to be too much fuss without any substantial reason. Don't go crying to the park because of a silly fan board rumor. This kind of rumor can stir up a lot of crap and put us in a bad light, especially if it is just made up after all.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: DianaGail on July 08, 2015, 01:01:20 PM
For years, we could get on the fm very quickly.  This year, the wait has been close to an hour all 3 visits. 
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: chittlins on July 08, 2015, 01:11:09 PM
For years, we could get on the fm very quickly.  This year, the wait has been close to an hour all 3 visits. 

I could see an overhaul, removal would be sad. Seems Cedar Fair and Six Flags are into Darks again with new or major overhauls yet SDC will kill a classic that's begging for modernization. Maybe they only want one to put effort in like FITH. Maybe the want the water element that the FM footprint can provide.

I always considered the entrance was kinda hidden because it was put in at a time the Rides wasn't a focus but compliment also it was a dead end the till GE and Red Gold
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Preachin_Bill on July 08, 2015, 02:34:10 PM
Does swoosh have the Napoleon (little man) complex?  It sure seems like it.  Anyway...

Getting rid of the Flooded Mine would be a huge mistake and I can't even imagine SDC without it, and I don't want to.  I honestly think they'd regret it.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: shavethewhales on July 08, 2015, 04:36:22 PM
^^^Interesting, I haven't seen a line on it in a long time. Then again, I'm usually good at picking uncrowded weekends to visit.

I think the driving force behind that rumor is the fact that so many parks are ditching their old water rides due to the maintenance issues that come up when you deal with water. Wouldn't surprise me if they need to do some major work on FM soon one way or another to replace the station system. They could ADA it then though. I've always though FiTH had worse issues with the water effects, hence Blazing Fury's adjustments that I assume will inevitably come to FiTH as well.


Before they get into rebuilding old areas of the park though, I'd expect them to work on the entrance and hospitality house. They've needed to work on those for some time now. I'll hate loosing the mural in HH, but it's unreasonable to funnel 20,000 through a tiny opening like that. They'll need to take out most of that building and expand the pathway up the side somehow at some point.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Dewayne on July 08, 2015, 05:44:07 PM
I dont know where Im at about FM going down because if this is more than just a rumor, nobody yet knows what ride will replace it. I more than likely wont be happy about it being demolished because it was 1 of my first rides and 1 of the only rides I could ride when I was 3. I remember being so scared of the maniquins that I covered my eyes, just like any other 3 year old does.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Hollwood on July 08, 2015, 06:36:36 PM
As for the Sea World take over rumor... It's not going to happen. HFE, its founders,  owners and Board Members want it to remain Family Owned. Joel is 56 and has a good 5 years of cleanup and rebranding ahead of him just to make the company profitable again. An investment of what could easily be a Billion Dollars is not going to happen before he retires...
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Runner1960 on July 08, 2015, 06:41:52 PM
As much as I grew up with FM I would not be sad to see it go. It has been changed so often it is now just a shadow of what it began as. If they are not going to maintain it then let it die. I actually did not like it when they changed it to a shootout, so to me it was already gone.

I really do not buy into the rumor either , but if the mystery mine type attraction is true the theming could be just like the flooded mine. Remember Disney took a lot of heat when they removed Mr. toad and Snow Whites scary adventure in Orlando. Now look what they have. Great new attractions that surpass what was replaced.

It was kind of sad on 4th of July when FM was a walk on. When I debarked the ide operator thanked me and said come back and ride with us again. Kind of like he was begging for business.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Citydweller84 on July 08, 2015, 08:04:28 PM
As much as I grew up with FM I would not be sad to see it go. It has been changed so often it is now just a shadow of what it began as. If they are not going to maintain it then let it die. I actually did not like it when they changed it to a shootout, so to me it was already gone.

I really do not buy into the rumor either , but if the mystery mine type attraction is true the theming could be just like the flooded mine. Remember Disney took a lot of heat when they removed Mr. toad and Snow Whites scary adventure in Orlando. Now look what they have. Great new attractions that surpass what was replaced.

It was kind of sad on 4th of July when FM was a walk on. When I debarked the ide operator thanked me and said come back and ride with us again. Kind of like he was begging for business.

I was at SDC on July 4th myself. Most of the rides were walk ons. I was there from park open until 4 or so. The only rides I had any significant wait on were LROTO and the train, but that was because they had whistle issues with one engine. My brother-in-law took his son back on FM while we were waiting for the train and they had a pretty decent wait. So I think it just all depends on when you're there.

Personally, I'd hate to see Flooded Mine go. I'd be perfectly fine with some updates being made to it. SDC needs a ride that is good for all ages, and FM is exactly that. Take that away and all you really have for all ages is the train, or RB, but many older folks will probably avoid that. Plus my own nostalgia clouds my judgment. FM was one of the very first rides I remember going on when I was a kid, and I can vaguely remember riding it before adding the shootout element.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: History Buff on July 08, 2015, 10:09:29 PM
There's really no reason to continue to bash Swoosh (or anyone else) on here.  Keep the current conversation going.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Tmboote on July 08, 2015, 10:20:49 PM
There's really no reason to continue to bash Swoosh (or anyone else) on here.  Keep the current conversation going.

Whose bashing Swoosh?

Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Tmboote on July 08, 2015, 11:15:33 PM
1. Saloon Show
2. Ribhouse
3. Dockside Theater
4. White River Mercantile
5. Riverfront Playhouse
6. Echo Hollow
7. Flooded Mine
8. Grandfather's Mansion
9. Treehouse
10. Midtown Shopping Area
11. Boatworks Theater
12. Carousel Barn
13. ThuNderaTion
14. Kiddie Rides (the insects/frogs) in Grand Expo
15. Storytime Theater in Half Dollar Holler
16. Corkscrew Pass
17. Hill Street
18. Homestead Area's non-paved area
19. American Plunge
20. Frisco Barn

So, we know that Swoosh posted this list asking us to rate these items based on their importance to us, saying it was purely a "hypothetical survey". But, he posted it in Construction/Rumors and kind of hinted that this list could actually mean something.

So, if FM is leaving, is there anything else on the list that we could also see removed in the future?
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: shavethewhales on July 09, 2015, 09:40:31 AM
Anything could be removed in the future. Everything has an expiration date. That list doesn't necessarily mean anything in particular - it's just another example of him trying to be coy about the rumors he thinks he's picked up on. Obviously though we will eventually see a lot of things be replaced and/or phased out. It's been a topic since this site started that a lot of stuff is has been simply wearing out and it's not as simple as just replacing it with all the new ADA standards and custom parts and whatnot.

Just off the top of my head, there are five major development areas I've been expecting work to be done on at some point:

1. Midtown area with the tree house and what's left of the landing area. Also probably Grandfather's mansion.
2. Old waterboggin area and nearby pathways
3. Powderkeg/waterfall/Opera house queue area.
4. Riverside theatre and the empty space next to it.
5. Entrance up to the hospitality house

That's a lot of area development potential right there.

Then you've got FiTH, FM, Grandfather's Mansion, and American Plunge which all have their issues and inevitably need to be reworked or entirely replaced within the near future. FiTH will probably get the RMC treatment that Blazing Fury got, Flooded Mine will probably be reworked to some degree, Grandfather's Mansion will probably close for good (perhaps with a minor replacement in the same spirit?), and American Plunge will probably make way for a new water ride. Wouldn't even try to guess the order or timeline of all that though, it's just what I've always seen as inevitable. Enjoy it while you can and get excited for the next thing!
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: mhguy77 on July 09, 2015, 11:13:04 AM
Sort of off topic but I didn't know RMC re tracked BF.  Why would get retract the ride with box track?  I love FITH but what could you do to the track to take advantage of their signature wildness.  Seems like an expensive mod for the ride.  Like putting racing tires on a model T.
Has anyone experienced BF after this change.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: shavethewhales on July 09, 2015, 11:31:42 AM
^It was a refurbishment project, it's not like they were going to turn it into a new coaster. I rode it a month ago, it was notably smoother but the only thing that really stood out as different was the lack of the splash down. I'm not sure how much RMC actually did on the track, or if Blazing Fury was always that smooth since it's newer than FiTH. Seems like a no-brainer to give FiTH the same treatment, but hopefully they can jazz up the splash down replacement over what Dollywood did.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Coaster on July 09, 2015, 11:35:20 AM
I'm fine with updates of the old rides if it prolongs their life. Just losing FITH or FM would be a huge loss for the park. The historical attractions hold a special place in the park. Look at Disneyland, 14 of the original 18 attractions that were there on opening day are still in operation or something crazy like that. That's why Disneyland still feels like the nostalgic gem that it is even though it is overshadowed by WDW in terms of size.

Obviously I know changes need to be made. Things updated and/or made safer. I'd be sad to see GM go as well, even though I think it could be updated quite a bit and improved. I think re-doing the entrance and Hospitality House area is something that really needs to be done. It becomes way too congested. I would hope that a lot of the charm of the area remained though. There's a lot of history right there as well.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: chittlins on July 09, 2015, 11:57:29 AM
I'm fine with updates of the old rides if it prolongs their life. Just losing FITH or FM would be a huge loss for the park. The historical attractions hold a special place in the park. Look at Disneyland, 14 of the original 18 attractions that were there on opening day are still in operation or something crazy like that. That's why Disneyland still feels like the nostalgic gem that it is even though it is overshadowed by WDW in terms of size.

Obviously I know changes need to be made. Things updated and/or made safer. I'd be sad to see GM go as well, even though I think it could be updated quite a bit and improved. I think re-doing the entrance and Hospitality House area is something that really needs to be done. It becomes way too congested. I would hope that a lot of the charm of the area remained though. There's a lot of history right there as well.

Small World is going back in time.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Runner1960 on July 09, 2015, 12:31:50 PM
^It was a refurbishment project, it's not like they were going to turn it into a new coaster. I rode it a month ago, it was notably smoother but the only thing that really stood out as different was the lack of the splash down. I'm not sure how much RMC actually did on the track, or if Blazing Fury was always that smooth since it's newer than FiTH. Seems like a no-brainer to give FiTH the same treatment, but hopefully they can jazz up the splash down replacement over what Dollywood did.

I have heard that FITH has more structural problems that may not make it feasible to rehab. Not sure if this is true, but if so re tracking would not help in that regard. If it was to be completely rebuilt from the ground up just think what could be done with the story line with today's technology.   I rode this thing the first year it opened 72 I think .So it is near and dear. I would hate to see it become a shadow of itself which is what it is slowly trending towards.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: DeweyBald on July 09, 2015, 02:06:03 PM
I'm fine with updates of the old rides if it prolongs their life. Just losing FITH or FM would be a huge loss for the park. The historical attractions hold a special place in the park. Look at Disneyland, 14 of the original 18 attractions that were there on opening day are still in operation or something crazy like that. That's why Disneyland still feels like the nostalgic gem that it is even though it is overshadowed by WDW in terms of size.

Obviously I know changes need to be made. Things updated and/or made safer. I'd be sad to see GM go as well, even though I think it could be updated quite a bit and improved. I think re-doing the entrance and Hospitality House area is something that really needs to be done. It becomes way too congested. I would hope that a lot of the charm of the area remained though. There's a lot of history right there as well.

I agree.  It is the historical attractions that sets SDC apart.  Sadly, if they lose FM, FITH and GM...they will also lose me.  I'm not much on roller coasters and SDC now has 5.  Tearing down a family ride to put in another coaster will do it in for me.  They REALLY need to concentrate on a theme ride.  I do not count PK as a theme ride.  It's nothing more than a coaster with a tag line.  A theme ride to me is something like the Diving Bell, or the Jim Owen Float Trip.  I would love to see them give the older rides some love.  Think about how cool FITH or FM would be if they invested as much as the cost of a new coaster!
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: History Buff on July 09, 2015, 04:09:20 PM
Agreed.  PK does tell the story - though it could be better - of mining guano from the cave for gunpowder, which is actually more in theme than Wildfire.  There has to be more of a storyline to keep the theme.

I just see more and more that this isn't the direction it's heading.  Last year, one of the older employees told us he was afraid that this is true.  Sadly, they will still succeed as far as profits go, but the park will lose its older patrons when there is less and less geared to them and as more and more teenagers run amok.  Six Flags Over Branson is not what we want.  I've adapted for the last decade or two, but there may come the time when they jump the shark.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Hollwood on July 09, 2015, 05:12:36 PM
Sort of off topic but I didn't know RMC re tracked BF.  Why would get retract the ride with box track?  I love FITH but what could you do to the track to take advantage of their signature wildness.  Seems like an expensive mod for the ride.  Like putting racing tires on a model T.
Has anyone experienced BF after this change.

We just rode it last week... Not sure where you got this info but a Retracking of an I box track with I box seems pointless... BF has ALWAYS been smother than FITH.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Preachin_Bill on July 09, 2015, 06:28:42 PM
Agreed.  PK does tell the story - though it could be better - of mining guano from the cave for gunpowder, which is actually more in theme than Wildfire.  There has to be more of a storyline to keep the theme.

I just see more and more that this isn't the direction it's heading.  Last year, one of the older employees told us he was afraid that this is true.  Sadly, they will still succeed as far as profits go, but the park will lose its older patrons when there is less and less geared to them and as more and more teenagers run amok.  Six Flags Over Branson is not what we want.  I've adapted for the last decade or two, but there may come the time when they jump the shark.

I'd just like to add that it isn't just the more "seasoned" patrons of the park or older generations that hate to see this.  I'm 28 and my wife and I love the park for it's tradition and uniqueness.  The same can be said of my many sisters and cousins that go to the park and bring their many kids every year.  We pass by a lot of parks to get to SDC.  The kids love SDC for a lot more than just the rides, and two of my nieces say FITH is their favorite ride and a nephew loves FM the most.  All these kids are about 8-10 and have ridden everything.
What they are really chasing with the new coaster thing is the people that travel to different parks every year for the "new" coaster.  There's no real loyalty.  Eventually that coaster is just like all the others found everywhere else in the U.S.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Dewayne on July 09, 2015, 06:30:58 PM
What about putting Mystery Mine where the treehouse/corkscrew pathway smoking area is? That way we can keep FM. FITH really needs the whole building rebuilt considering how bad of shape it is in, as Ive said before. GM, isnt much of a "Fun" house now. Its old and needs new, updated Fun House stuff in it. Right now, its just a boring, slanted house that I rarely go into. I dont want it left the way it is, but I dont know what could go there if they tear it down. I mainly just want it updated/rebuilt with new technology. To me, having something like FITH rebuilt/updated will be a whole new, better ride, so Im all for that.

The entrance/exit space really is horrible. Do they really expect to get people in and out of the park with that 1 rode on extremely crowded days in a few minutes? I think theyre sadly mistaken. It takes FOREVER to get out when everybody else tries to on extremely crowded days. All other parks Ive seen have much bigger roads to get in and out fast, and theyre separate roads. SDC needs to make separate roads for getting in and out, instead of waiting until you get to OM for the line to speed up. Why not make the exit near Homestead Ridge, near the Shingle Saw Tractor or from First Aid?

Anybody can ride the train, flooded mine, carousel, sand play, treetop trails (most have to go down the ramp instead of thru the trampoline), ball pit, kiddie play area, dizzy dogs, jr accelerator, splash yard, homestead, church, school, the cave, balloons, fire wagon, and GM. I never knew there were 17 rides that babies can now ride because I never counted them until now.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: History Buff on July 09, 2015, 06:54:09 PM
That's true.  An attraction that produces longevity for the park would be much more desirable than a record-breaker that gets dwarfed during the next coaster season.  Why compete with the others when what you have is one-of-a-kind?
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: shavethewhales on July 09, 2015, 06:54:19 PM
They should stick to putting coaters where they make sense: on the outer fringes of the park like they always have. I'm fairly certain they'll keep doing this for the forseeable future.

I've been of a somewhat similar viewpoint to you HB & Preachin Bill, the ride additions have always been a double edged sword. On the other hand though, if they keep adding them in a manner that adds story telling, detail, and immersion to the park then it's still a different world than Six Flags. If I were in charge of the park, I'd do things slightly differently with the rides, but as it is I'm happy they put in the effort that they do while trying to appease as many people as possible. At the end of the day it's still a business. Don't go loosing faith in the park just yet, they almost never let us down.  (Refering mostly to GE and Geyser Gulch)
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Tmboote on July 09, 2015, 09:29:18 PM
The entrance/exit space really is horrible. Do they really expect to get people in and out of the park with that 1 rode on extremely crowded days in a few minutes? I think theyre sadly mistaken. It takes FOREVER to get out when everybody else tries to on extremely crowded days. All other parks Ive seen have much bigger roads to get in and out fast, and theyre separate roads. SDC needs to make separate roads for getting in and out, instead of waiting until you get to OM for the line to speed up. Why not make the exit near Homestead Ridge, near the Shingle Saw Tractor or from First Aid?


I've never had problems with the current entrance/exit area and I don't think it is the biggest problem the park is currently facing.

They should stick to putting coaters where they make sense: on the outer fringes of the park like they always have. I'm fairly certain they'll keep doing this for the forseeable future.

I know it's better for the park's theme to have the coasters on the edges, but it is kind of annoying have to walk all around the park to get from one coaster to the next.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: History Buff on July 09, 2015, 10:09:25 PM
I love the more extreme rides on the perimeter.  I've always thought to be a genius way to do things.  GE broke that plan by putting the younger kids on one edge, but I they rightly understood that they were breaking with the general SDC theme, so they put it out of the way.

If there is a "mystery mine" on the horizon, would you think it's the ice house theme?  I wouldn't want it in the FM location, as FM should be sacred to the park, but it could be at the riverfront, as that's where ice would be harvested.  It would certainly change the shoreline once again.  If that entire area is revamped, such a thing could be right on the river with a rerouted sidewalk.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: DianaGail on July 09, 2015, 10:15:50 PM
Do you know why there are that many things for babies to do (by the way, you can't ride sand so that doesn't count)?  Because it's families of young children spending money in the park!  It's families, like ours, that have 3 kids under 8 that are dumping $100.00 a trip (sometimes) on souvenirs and food. While I understand the need for expanding "adult" rides, you have to cater to the families.  If you loose them to Disney world one year, you will have a hard time getting them back...ever.  Look how much power the around 30 crowd has over what is going on in the entertainment world.  They are crowd funding shows and movies from our childhood.  They are willing to drive to get to a destination they know is safe for their children.  Don't discount the babies.  Without thhem, the park would be struggling.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: chittlins on July 09, 2015, 10:19:57 PM
That's true.  An attraction that produces longevity for the park would be much more desirable than a record-breaker that gets dwarfed during the next coaster season.  Why compete with the others when what you have is one-of-a-kind?

A coaster doesn't have to be a 20 million plus B&M,  i'd just as soon have an woody out and back that didn't invent. We loved reriding the new coaster at Funspot in Feb. I figure out of the coasters I'm most interested in is the one they hopefully build in.Panama City and the boomerang woodie at the little park near San Antonio.  I'd be just as stoked for a great bobsled, custom mouse style coaster from Gerstlauer or Mack. My #1 desire is to see a new FITH with new animatronics, track system, while staying true to the orginal story theme. We have hashed that out several times. I don't even care if the moved it, as long as the storyline stayed,  especially the pants scene. I've said before if they opened up.the parking lot near GE indoor attractions like Fire in the Hole provide a type of blocking buffer from 76

As for 76, there needs to be two turning lanes off of  76 to Indian Point Rd, those turning lanes need to extend to the 265 intersection
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: chittlins on July 09, 2015, 10:32:12 PM
Do you know why there are that many things for babies to do (by the way, you can't ride sand so that doesn't count)?  Because it's families of young children spending money in the park!  It's families, like ours, that have 3 kids under 8 that are dumping $100.00 a trip (sometimes) on souvenirs and food. While I understand the need for expanding "adult" rides, you have to cater to the families.  If you loose them to Disney world one year, you will have a hard time getting them back...ever.  Look how much power the around 30 crowd has over what is going on in the entertainment world.  They are crowd funding shows and movies from our childhood.  They are willing to drive to get to a destination they know is safe for their children.  Don't discount the babies.  Without thhem, the park would be struggling.

 a junior woodie is a great idea for the future. What do you think of this

https://youtu.be/1vWRSQS6TIs

(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/7lozKTGvfiA/hqdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: chittlins on July 09, 2015, 10:42:19 PM
This little thing packs some airtime they say, i'd love to give it a.whirl.

https://youtu.be/RtYSte59Yb4
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Coaster on July 10, 2015, 10:38:42 AM
If there is a "mystery mine" on the horizon, would you think it's the ice house theme?  I wouldn't want it in the FM location, as FM should be sacred to the park, but it could be at the riverfront, as that's where ice would be harvested.  It would certainly change the shoreline once again.  If that entire area is revamped, such a thing could be right on the river with a rerouted sidewalk.

This is what I've always hoped would happen. It gives the park another indoor dark ride (we need more indoor attractions). It would also be great in staying with the theme and would provide another great storyline for the park. I have always loved the Ice House concept. It is different, fun, and interesting.

I don't see our next coaster being another woodie. Right after Outlaw Run I think they will want to go in a different direction. If it is an out and back then people would just be comparing the two.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Runner1960 on July 10, 2015, 11:26:18 AM
Myself, I am torn between 2 different things I would like to see next.

1. A true out and back woodie. No gimmicks, no inversions just sheer speed. Still my favorite type coaster of any. Or
2. A highly themed dark ride. preferably a rebuild of AP in a mountain type setting with several drops.

As for a post mentioned above about children and babies I will respectfully disagree. I think the park right now is slanted to far in that direction now. You have Half Dollar holler, GE, Fireman's landing, The train, FM, Lost River, Hi-LO silos,GM,  All the summer shows are kids stuff.  So really the park leans very heavy to the family friendly side. Hopefully the PTB can find the right mix to satisfy everyone. I really am torn though about replacement of old classics. I would prefer that they be totally removed if they cannot maintain them and they become a shell of what the original intent was. That is sad and not popular but everything has a life span and some things are reaching it.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: HumphreyHawk on July 10, 2015, 03:00:35 PM
I love good air-time woodies as much as anyone else but I that that would be the worst idea on this board.  They just put in one of the best in the world?

As a Dad of 4 young ones who also loves me some big roller coasters I'd love to see a good modern 'starter' coaster be installed.  Yes....like fire chaser...to be able to share the fun with the kids.  I also agree that the park needs more inside (AC and/or heated) rides....so a quality dark ride (or FITH rework) would be welcomed.

Imagine a people mover type of Disney rework for FITH?  (Don't hate me)  Or just make sure the remake includes a higher load rate for the ride.

SDC should almost by embarrassed by AP....it really needs to be either replaced or refurbished ASAP.  The cheapest option I'd like to see is using the 'American' part of it and just work on the theme around that.

FM can wait.....it just needs new 'modern' tech for the guns.....add some results for the boat at the end of the ride....a few new 'easter eggs' to find.

I really hope SDC gives at least one old rides some love next year and follow up with a family coaster or another 'big' ride/attraction the year after.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: HumphreyHawk on July 10, 2015, 03:05:50 PM
We also need to mindful that I'm sure right now with the addition of FL....SDC is probable at an all-time high in the number of rides it's currently operating.  Each new rides has continuing operations costs with them.  I wouldn't be surprised if the need to balance those cost out in the future by having to close attractions before opening new ones.  I've always wondered what the business cost cap is on that.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Sheriff on July 10, 2015, 03:12:40 PM
Long time lurker but Humphrey's post made me want to respond and completely agree on a well thought out post. I'm sure people will always want "one more" big coaster but there is a lot of other things that can be done to enhance the overall experience of the park.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: chittlins on July 10, 2015, 05:36:55 PM
I love good air-time woodies as much as anyone else but I that that would be the worst idea on this board.  They just put in one of the best in the world?


Main reason is because it's an invert. Lot's of folks aren't keen on going upside down not to mention 4he added burden of more restrictive restraints. As an adult, I'd like a hyper with no inversions but an 8 year old might not care to hit 90+ mph..  I just posted what newer in smaller, junior coasters. The Roar a saurus is meant be a kid coaster first and foremost.
I think
If I was in charge and a woody was on my list i'm watching how the boomerang coaster going into a small park outside of San Antonio turns out. It would give the SDC noninverting woody it missed out on when CC got OzCat only to close. But adds a home rang element it alway misses. Gravity Group isn't the only one that has had the ideal, GCI has pitches it as well. Heck, Gravity Group has a indoor woodie concept but you are getting into  likely capacity issues.

The GG thag is actually being built
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/27JAn_lB4M4/hqdefault.jpg)

The GCI concept
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-01obWzhzz8I/UKUtSGaEShI/AAAAAAAAFng/xQ5fXf32DWA/s400/535553_10151282429028566_1418615933_n.jpg)

Both have virtual videos out on the Internet of each.

I'm sure Rocky Mountain could do it as well.

Look, I just want fun rides but give inversions a break. I want reliable rides, Power Keg is not, it's been closed for significant time that caused us to not ride or completely closed on more than half our 14 visits to the park in the last 5 years.

The park doesn't have
1) inverted/suspended coaster, Vekoma makes a good family non inverting one and do customs, B&M has started making them as well.

2)Non inverting woody

3)bobsled/hybrid wildmouse

4)Spinning coaster, here's a custom Mack going to China, it will be mostly in closed in a themed mountain


Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: chittlins on July 10, 2015, 05:42:50 PM
I cerainy see SDC thinking the fall harvest and crafts festival giving them cover on many of the crafts that no longer have a permanent presence in the park.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: History Buff on July 10, 2015, 06:55:17 PM
^^Welcome to to new posters!  I have also thought about the cost of adding multiple employees to each of these new area when they are built.  I suppose that raises the rate of passes and other things, especially if attendance doesn't increase.  There also has to be a cap on the number of patrons in the park based on the square acreage.  As some point it just ends up being torturous to navigate those peaceful Ozarks.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: chittlins on July 10, 2015, 07:01:39 PM
^^Welcome to to new posters!  I have also thought about the cost of adding multiple employees to each of these new area when they are built.  I suppose that raises the rate of passes and other things, especially if attendance doesn't increase.  There also has to be a cap on the number of patrons in the park based on the square acreage.  As some point it just ends up being torturous to navigate those peaceful Ozarks.

Depends on if you cut others elsewhere.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Dewayne on July 12, 2015, 09:32:01 AM
The first woodie reminds me of Wildcat.

LOL, I agree, yes I think we need something that is 1 of a kind. Not record breaking. Its just silly to do it the other way.

I put the baby rides like that because thats how they do it in the app, pathfinder, etc. Even though some are attractions, and not rides because they dont move, they still call them rides. I didnt think Id have to word that right. I know you cant ride sand. You can play with it.

I agree that having 2 turning lanes would be nice and faster, but they dont need that. They already have 2 ways to get in: the left turning lane and the straight lane going to Branson West, then turn around and use the right turning lane that people rarely stop at. Its not really a line if you have 2 ways to get in, and 1 is shorter.

Chittlins, sdc already has a spinning coaster, Thunderation.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Dewayne on July 12, 2015, 10:44:34 AM
Ok, lets think about this for a minute. We all want the old rides to be updated/rebuilt, but has SDC ever upgraded/rebuilt any ride? Im trying to get ideas from the past to look at the future. Every time a ride got old, it was taken out. Take Buss Saw Falls for example, it was turned into Powder Keg. Has sdc ever updated/rebuilt a ride? I dont think they ever did, but Im hoping that will change.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: shavethewhales on July 12, 2015, 11:56:05 AM
^I'm not aware of SDC ever simply taking out a ride due to being "old". They usually either have problems or the park simply wants something better in it's place. Buzzsaw, the Waterboggin, and almost everything else that has been taken out was removed due to operational difficulties.

The only ride "upgrade" that comes to mind was the addition of guns and targets to Flooded Mine. You could conceivably see the transformation of Jim Owens into American Plunge as an "upgrade" as well.

FYI: spinning coasters are coasters with cars that actually spin in circles as they move around the track. Both WoF and SFStL have one.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Duelist on July 12, 2015, 11:57:10 AM
Quote from: Laroy
Chittlins, sdc already has a spinning coaster, Thunderation.

Thunderation has a corkscrew but is not a spinning coaster- this is: https://www.sixflags.com/fiestatexas/attractions/pandemonium
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Dewayne on July 12, 2015, 12:16:07 PM
I think thats called a Wild Mouse coaster. Can they turn the spinning on and off? Ive seen some that have the spinning turned off for no reason. Thunderation is a spinning coaster because of the tornado. There is no corkscrews in TNT. If there were, it would go upside down. WF has a corkscrew.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: joshblakebran on July 12, 2015, 12:17:19 PM
Does swoosh have the Napoleon (little man) complex?  It sure seems like it.  Anyway...

Getting rid of the Flooded Mine would be a huge mistake and I can't even imagine SDC without it, and I don't want to.  I honestly think they'd regret it.
Flooded Mine is probably my favorite ride/attraction. The other day I rode it without even picking up a gun just to enjoy the theming of it. It really does have a lot of detail. As Shave said, it is a ride that the whole family can do together whether they all like rides or not.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: joshblakebran on July 12, 2015, 12:40:51 PM



My family is losing hope with Powder Keg. It was broken down or down for maintenance for a good portion of our 13 day trip. We ended up riding it once. It seems so finicky and unreliable.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Tmboote on July 12, 2015, 01:51:41 PM
Spinning roller coaster- TNT definitely doesn't match the description.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinning_roller_coaster (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinning_roller_coaster)
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Dewayne on July 12, 2015, 02:07:18 PM
Me too, but you must have bad luck. Half of the time it is opened at least 5 hours when Im there. It does have stupid, touchy sensors but its still my favorite and by far the best ride.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Hollwood on July 12, 2015, 02:44:44 PM
Quote
My family is losing hope with Powder Keg. It was broken down or down for maintenance for a good portion of our 13 day trip. We ended up riding it once. It seems so finicky and unreliable.

Prototypes usually are.

Quote
I think thats called a Wild Mouse coaster. Can they turn the spinning on and off? Ive seen some that have the spinning turned off for no reason. Thunderation is a spinning coaster because of the tornado. There is no corkscrews in TNT. If there were, it would go upside down. WF has a corkscrew.

I'm not trying to be mean here... And I want to get to you gently before Swoosh reads this... It really is a good idea to know terminology before making claims and arguing on forums like these. There are Wild Mouse coasters, and Spinning Wild Mouse coasters. TNT has a helix, this does not make it a Spinning Coaster. A Spinning Coaster is defined by the cars and their ability to spin on their chassis. I like you Laroy, your passion reminds me... Of me... But you need to clean things up a little and learn from folks instead of wanting to argue and prove them wrong.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: shavethewhales on July 12, 2015, 03:51:48 PM
Getting back on topic, if they were to develop the midtown/treehouse/potentially even some of the landing area, what would they do? I'm thinking that at this point they would level the woodcutters shop, tree house, and Big Jacks and they would build an entirely new "street" with more dense shopping on either side. One of the buildings could have a fun house in it to replace Grandfather's Mansion.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Runner1960 on July 12, 2015, 04:16:12 PM
Getting back on topic, if they were to develop the midtown/treehouse/potentially even some of the landing area, what would they do? I'm thinking that at this point they would level the woodcutters shop, tree house, and Big Jacks and they would build an entirely new "street" with more dense shopping on either side. One of the buildings could have a fun house in it to replace Grandfather's Mansion.

I agree that some of the older stuff would need to be replaced. The tree house area would free a ton of space. It would really be nice if this area were revamped we could get a good coffeehouse with indoor and outdoor seating. Maybe have it connected to the mill where you could enjoy your coffee and cinnamon bread together. Not sure what could be done with the old grandfathers Facade. Probably would have to be gutted and maybe it could be home to the historical museum others have talked about. One thing for sure this area does need some love.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Hollwood on July 12, 2015, 04:16:25 PM
I'm sot sure if I have shared this idea before or not but midtown would be a perfect place to preserve the crafts. I think a Chance Wipeout themed to a wooden top inside of a "toy shop" would be a great replacement for the treehouse. They could revive the wood carver area here as well as move the duplicating lathe. This toy shop would reminisce on the old wooden toys as well as offer today's hottest. It would give us crafts, shopping, and an indoor ride all in the same footprint.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: History Buff on July 12, 2015, 04:40:43 PM
Part of the problem is that SDC has relaxed its standards on vendors who "rent" shops.  It used to be that every shop had someone doing some aspect of their "craft" in the shop.  Nothing was made in China or prepackaged in a factory.  Now, a person with some money to invest can put their inventory in a shop almost as easily as a person can rent space in a strip mall in town.  I wonder if SDC has to search for vendors to fill the spaces.

Still, at this point Midtown is a mere transition area; to many it's like flyover country.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: joshblakebran on July 12, 2015, 07:14:12 PM
Getting back on topic, if they were to develop the midtown/treehouse/potentially even some of the landing area, what would they do? I'm thinking that at this point they would level the woodcutters shop, tree house, and Big Jacks and they would build an entirely new "street" with more dense shopping on either side. One of the buildings could have a fun house in it to replace Grandfather's Mansion.

I agree that some of the older stuff would need to be replaced. The tree house area would free a ton of space. It would really be nice if this area were revamped we could get a good coffeehouse with indoor and outdoor seating. Maybe have it connected to the mill where you could enjoy your coffee and cinnamon bread together. Not sure what could be done with the old grandfathers Facade. Probably would have to be gutted and maybe it could be home to the historical museum others have talked about. One thing for sure this area does need some love.
Love the idea of an indoor/outdoor coffee house connected to the mill...
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Tmboote on July 12, 2015, 07:30:49 PM
I don't know if we need another coffee shop, we already have the bakery and it's to hot for coffee most of the season.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: chittlins on July 12, 2015, 07:31:56 PM
I'm sot sure if I have shared this idea before or not but midtown would be a perfect place to preserve the crafts. I think a Chance Wipeout themed to a wooden top inside of a "toy shop" would be a great replacement for the treehouse. They could revive the wood carver area here as well as move the duplicating lathe. This toy shop would reminisce on the old wooden toys as well as offer today's hottest. It would give us crafts, shopping, and an indoor ride all in the same footprint.

Yes, you have. It's a great idea in weatherproofing rides,  it harken back to when the carousel was inside. Several indoor flats would be grand.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Runner1960 on July 12, 2015, 07:42:16 PM
I don't know if we need another coffee shop, we already have the bakery and it's to hot for coffee most of the season.

Not really. I'm not talking the horrible stuff they sell out of the premade machines. A Starbucks type establishment with made to order Coffee's ,Teas and other specialty drinks would go over big. Disney now has Starbucks in all there parks and its hotter than hades down there.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Dewayne on July 12, 2015, 08:49:32 PM
A spinning coaster is only a spinning coaster when the cars can spin freely. Some videos are taped when they have the cars locked and then they arent really considered a spinning coaster if they dont spin. This is the reason Im nervous and dont want it coming to SDC. Im afraid they will eventually turn off the spinners, just to take something away from the ride, like they do on every ride after it comes to SDC.

Hollywood, I usually try to stay away from arguing. Dont need that on here. But thanks for saying I remind you of you. :D I just try to share my knowledge with everybody on here and say my opinions. I also try to help people on here by letting them know where they messed up on here. I dont want anybody to look stupid.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Tmboote on July 12, 2015, 09:03:44 PM
I'm afraid they will eventually turn off the spinners, just to take something away from the ride, like they do on every ride after it comes to SDC.

What have they taken away from WF, PK, TNT, Barn Swing, Lost River, or OR?
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Dewayne on July 12, 2015, 09:23:53 PM
WF: they took the cameras off the seats. PK: they took the water sprayers, pool, water from the creek, 30 minute wait sign, old sayings, stuff coming out of the doors, and the long way for row 1 away. TNT: They took the short entrance away/bridge, backwards cars, some signs, and campsite (i dont see it on either side now) away. Barn Swing: They changed long way #2, took out the fence that makes you go to the exit so they could put the lockers there (i think that wasnt a good idea to place them there. Should be outside, next to the fence), the 30 minute wait sign. LR: The waterfall doesnt shut off like it used to, being able to cross the bridge, and using lane 4 from the long way. OR: Still pretty new to take anything out, but they took out long way #3, opened up the other side and made it into stroller parking. Theres probably more but thats all I can think of, as of right now.

Thanks for bringing up the Midtown topic. I totally forgot they closed down the sandwich shop. Maybe since they got a pretty good size area of bare land/closed things, this might be a sign that there will be something going in there soon. But, they did move the woodcarvers to that new shop and they redid the bathrooms, so I dont think they will take those out.

I always saw this tan tower as I walked on Corscrew Pathway and thought it was part of Tom Sawyers Landings tan kiddie coaster. Then, when they took out the kiddie coaster, they left the tower and that got me scratching my head. It has a cable on it that is connected to the treehouse. Maybe this is a sign. I never thought of that until now.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Tmboote on July 12, 2015, 09:49:08 PM
WF: they took the cameras off the seats. PK: they took the water sprayers, pool, water from the creek, 30 minute wait sign, old sayings, stuff coming out of the doors, and the long way for row 1 away. TNT: They took the short entrance away/bridge, backwards cars, some signs, and campsite (i dont see it on either side now) away. Barn Swing: They changed long way #2, took out the fence that makes you go to the exit so they could put the lockers there (i think that wasnt a good idea to place them there. Should be outside, next to the fence), the 30 minute wait sign. LR: The waterfall doesnt shut off like it used to, being able to cross the bridge, and using lane 4 from the long way. OR: Still pretty new to take anything out, but they took out long way #3, opened up the other side and made it into stroller parking. Theres probably more but thats all I can think of, as of right now.

PK: those weren't meant to be part of the ride and they still have the 30 minute wait sign, it's just in the wrong spot

TNT: when they added the backwards cars it was changing the ride, by removing them they restored the ride to the way it was

Barn Swing: doesn't really matter if you exit out the enter

LR: I've seen lane four used in the last month, and I don't think it's really their fault that the waterfall doesn't turn off completely
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: shavethewhales on July 12, 2015, 10:55:19 PM
That doesn't really make sense, Laroy. You still don't understand what a spinning coaster is, or you wouldn't be worried about them "turning off the spinning", and most of those examples are petty or not really related. I don't know of any spinning coaster that ever gets locked into place - it wouldn't make sense.

Once again getting back to the topic at hand though: a coffee shop is a good idea to me. Coffee isn't supposed to be a cooling drink, it's supposed to wake you up or in some cases help you relax. It would work well with everything else if they were to advertise midtown as a shopping/relaxing area again.

It is tough to find vendors. Like I've said numerous times before, the supply of authentic craftsmen is dwindling, and most of the few that remain don't want to work at SDC or on SDC's terms. I'll gladly accept them loosening their standards in that regard if it means getting more shops into the park. I'd rather have the authentic stuff, but in this case we may be choosing between something or nothing. Just as long as they don't start letting those magnetic jewelry people in.  ::)
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: History Buff on July 13, 2015, 12:02:10 AM
I don't see why they can't bring in lower-wage workers and train them to do the "final touches" to items - and take their time doing it - and teach them to blow smoke about their "craft".  The illusion would be there, and the storytelling would be there.  All of that would lend authenticity to it even though it would be an illusion - kind of a metaphor of the whole park, just a romanticized illusion of history and reality.

My point is that the current stores there will not draw people to that section of the park.  They're just not special.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: DianaGail on July 13, 2015, 08:30:12 AM
They can't even find enough workers for the park in general.  I'm not sure it would work to add another job category to the mix.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: chittlins on July 13, 2015, 09:00:18 AM
They can't even find enough workers for the park in general.  I'm not sure it would work to add another job category to the mix.



Back before CC closed, we noticed that several of the ride ops on the flat rides at both parks were eastern European and asia. I remember one sweet Asian lady operating the kiddie coaster in GE was barely able to speak English. I remember the Sea Loin show being done with folks with heavy Russian like accents.

It wasn't until after CC closed and the recession that this seemed to disappear.

Maybe it didn't but that's my perception.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: HumphreyHawk on July 15, 2015, 08:34:04 AM
I've always thought that SDC would be 'flooded' with starving artists/craftsman who would love to have their stuff featured in the park.  Seems like a great way to get your goods in front of people who just might come back and be a regular customer outside of the park.  You could even have some type of schedule of different artists and craftsman who could be featured to meet/watch through the different 'festivals'. 

I'm guessing the profit margin for selling the outside cheap goods are hard to ignore on the bottom line and I doubt any one feature artists/craftsman will increase ticket sales enough to justify hiring him/her over the cost of a 'regular' sales worker:(

Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: mhguy77 on July 15, 2015, 08:42:21 AM
Quote
I don't see why they can't bring in lower-wage workers and train them to do the "final touches" to items - and take their time doing it - and teach them to blow smoke about their "craft".

At one time I worked in a position that allowed me to view some SDC employee paystubs (the employees handed them to me themselves).  My word of advice to you is be nice to them, they are not doing this to be rich, bareley to buy lunch.  For as much profit as the corp may bring in they supply minimum wage jobs to employees that swelter out in the heat.  I see why they are able to attract so many seniors as it gives them some extra cash to go with their SSI but for the younger generation I think its tough to remain happy and convicted to go a good job at minimum wage.  Unless things have changed this is a labor of love.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: chittlins on July 15, 2015, 09:58:22 AM
Some find greener pastures outside of SDC. We have , for years,  bought items off of Blakely Wilson, Her parents had Wilson's Decoys in the park for some years. Her shop is at a prominent spot in Eureka but her mother and her typically are producing folk art to sell at War Eagle. Sadly, Eureka has been overrun with import crap as well.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: DollarCityBoy on July 17, 2015, 10:52:58 AM
Some find greener pastures outside of SDC. We have , for years,  bought items off of Blakely Wilson, Her parents had Wilson's Decoys in the park for some years. Her shop is at a prominent spot in Eureka but her mother and her typically are producing folk art to sell at War Eagle. Sadly, Eureka has been overrun with import crap as well.

We love Blakely's work too, and bought a piece from her several years ago. She always remembers us, and we enjoy our visits with her in Eureka Springs.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: chittlins on July 23, 2015, 10:15:05 PM
Well, Gerstlauer has opened a new coaster at Hansa Park in Germany. It's got an enclosed tower lift (hmmmm....) and it't vertical along with the vertical drop that you see with euro fighters lime Mystery Mine. Here's the gimmick, as you are going up, there's a freefall backwards before continuing to the apex.  Yes, that's right, the lift is part drop tower. Here's the video, apparently they opened it up in a hurry and the theming will be completed in the off season.  The drop is in the dark.

This would fit with a first in the US marketing thing, possibly use the water bogging superstructure and the Flooded mine are  could add the over water effect, if FM was to go, wish parts could live on in dark segments of a new ride.

https://youtu.be/r1pfFIlleok
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: chittlins on August 14, 2015, 05:00:03 PM
Another visit to Whitewater has me convinced it needs.bulldozed and rebuild within a similar theme of SDC , by SDC. Terrain would allow for something like this.

https://youtu.be/hdLvXF-7BvU
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: jliehr on October 30, 2015, 07:36:28 PM
Well, Gerstlauer has opened a new coaster at Hansa Park in Germany. It's got an enclosed tower lift (hmmmm....) and it't vertical along with the vertical drop that you see with euro fighters lime Mystery Mine. Here's the gimmick, as you are going up, there's a freefall backwards before continuing to the apex.  Yes, that's right, the lift is part drop tower. Here's the video, apparently they opened it up in a hurry and the theming will be completed in the off season.  The drop is in the dark.

This would fit with a first in the US marketing thing, possibly use the water bogging superstructure and the Flooded mine are  could add the over water effect, if FM was to go, wish parts could live on in dark segments of a new ride.

https://youtu.be/r1pfFIlleok

The gimmick is just that, not sold on the indoor part, but overall seems like a nice ride.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: shavethewhales on December 06, 2015, 10:35:42 PM
After seeing the absolute crush at the park this weekend, 2 things are clear: The park needs a new entrance/tram station, and a resort is actually needed.

The new entrance has been an obvious need for awhile. The park simply can't grow like this when peak weekends are so busy that the crowds literally can't fit through the current entrance and exit. They always have to open up the alternate entrance, which is weird and tacky, and leaving the park can easily become a nightmare if the weather is bad or there is an accident. I'm surprised there hasn't been a stampede event yet with the way the crowd has to funnel into a solid mass going down from HH to the market. Plus SDC grew past the whole "exit through the giftshop" phase decades ago.

I'm positive there are plans somewhere for a new entrance, I just wonder when they'll pull the trigger. It seems like it's one of those things they've probably been planning to do for ages but keep shelving for various reasons. It's certainly a lot of expense for something that isn't marketable.

A resort with it's own entrance would help alleviate a chunk of the crowd pressure as well. Plus, the park is simply big enough for it at this point and they might as well pull the trigger on that and take the profits that are sitting there ready to be taken. We stayed at the stillwaters resort on Indian Point this time, and I can't tell you how much of a headache it saved us by not having to deal with the complete gridlock heading into the area. People were waiting 3-4 hours on the road to get into the park at one point. We simply slipped in and out from the other direction. A proper SDC resort would be even easier and I'd love to stay in the SDC ambiance all weekend.

I think we all probably already agree that it's a matter of time now that DW has set the precedent.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Swoosh on December 06, 2015, 11:16:48 PM
The issue, that I keep hearing about - i.e. the hold up, is they keep disagreeing with how to handle the cave.  Right now the entrance/exit to the park goes in between the cave's major sinkhole and the tram back up.  The only real option here is to make that the exit way and build a new entrance elsewhere.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Coaster on December 07, 2015, 03:07:23 PM
Leaving the park was a complete nightmare on Saturday. Something does need to be done and very soon i.e. for the 2016 season.

For pure speculation and fun, if we did get a resort with its very own entrance into the park, where are places in the park where that entrance could be?
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: shavethewhales on December 07, 2015, 10:47:53 PM
I also should have mentioned parking. It sounds like they basically ran out of spaces on Saturday, and they've been having to park people miles away for the park for years now. It's totally confusing for people who are coming on their first visit to have to wind through SDC's parking maze only to be led down the highway for several miles into an old field behind a bank. I don't know where they'd put a new lot though... it won't be pretty. I really didn't like to see the old valley filled in, but more of that needs to happen somehow.

Highway 76 is a whole other monster to deal with. There's something to be said for buying up flat land in Branson West and starting a shuttle from there.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Swoosh on December 08, 2015, 12:09:47 AM
Leaving the park was a complete nightmare on Saturday. Something does need to be done and very soon i.e. for the 2016

First off, they need their marshals to actually direct the traffic to parking spots to maximize parking.  Next they need to have them help with the outflow at night. I don't understand why that's such a difficult concept to grasp. 

Regarding 76.  They need a flyover bridge to be at the Indian Point junction.  The light doesn't work anymore. 
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: chittlins on December 08, 2015, 05:51:44 AM
Leaving the park was a complete nightmare on Saturday. Something does need to be done and very soon i.e. for the 2016

First off, they need their marshals to actually direct the traffic to parking spots to maximize parking.  Next they need to have them help with the outflow at night. I don't understand why that's such a difficult concept to grasp.  

Regarding 76.  They need a flyover bridge to be at the Indian Point junction.  The light doesn't work anymore.  

A smart NWAer figures out coming from Kimberling City is best for busy days but yeah, a flyover frees up the back up at the light but likely be viable in the park, with car height you are talking 30ft. In the air.

I know of two families this year that are not pass holders that simply gave up getting to SDC after traffic issues and did something else.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: mhguy77 on December 08, 2015, 08:37:01 AM
Quote
The only real option here is to make that the exit way and build a new entrance elsewhere.
Knock out the rock wall directly to your right after you leave the ticket purchasing area and walk them in on the employee entrance that comes up between the Hospitality house and the restaurant.
In with the new path and exit with the other.  At the end of the day run both the entrance and exit as exits.  They would intersect at the water clock.
They may have to do a little modifying and construction but it could be done.  Check out google earth you will see the path that runs around the back of the sink hole.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Swoosh on December 08, 2015, 09:01:22 AM
I guess they could make the sinkhole a feature and put a path around the rim. 
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: mhguy77 on December 08, 2015, 09:24:26 AM
Quote
I guess they could make the sinkhole a feature and put a path around the rim.
Sure could, just cant get too close.  The path is there but they would have to reduce the size of the restaurant or the HH to accomplish this.  I dont htink they would want people coming up next to the candy factory.  Not attractive or a good entrance.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Dewayne on December 08, 2015, 03:41:35 PM
I heard they were rejecting people from coming down SDC road. They were making them turn around at the light on Saturday because every parking space was full. Even the employee parking was full. Ive never heard of it being so packed. I would expect this on YCW, Memorial day weekend, or Labor day weekend, but not during December. This astonished me. They must have had over 25,000 on Saturday. Maybe over 28,000. I think they do need an upgrade on the parking lot already, after they just had an upgrade about 5 years ago.

If they dont take out the light, then they need to at least build a second turning lane. I feel sorry for all the people that have to wait in the same line just to get to thier house/resort/hotel/motel in Indian Point.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: History Buff on December 08, 2015, 04:08:42 PM
Did I see people entering through the First Aid station, Friday evening?  It seemed that way as we sat there, eating our glazed funnel cake.  A citizen was directing the people coming from that direction to go up the hill, because the parade was coming down the hill.

Side note:  a cart containing hot chocolate came out of the backstage area there, and upon meeting the traffic (Friday was an ideally-sized crowd), the citizen announced to passersby, "Hot chocolate coming through!  Chocolate has the right of way!"  That's the simple kind of thing that makes roving citizens fun.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Coaster on December 08, 2015, 05:25:39 PM
First off, they need their marshals to actually direct the traffic to parking spots to maximize parking.  Next they need to have them help with the outflow at night. I don't understand why that's such a difficult concept to grasp.   

I actually think they did as good a job as possible under the circumstances in directing traffic and maximizing the parking spots. I was simply meaning that there were too many people in such a small area inside the Hospitality House.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Preachin_Bill on December 08, 2015, 08:25:47 PM
Did I see people entering through the First Aid station, Friday evening?  It seemed that way as we sat there, eating our glazed funnel cake.  A citizen was directing the people coming from that direction to go up the hill, because the parade was coming down the hill.


Yes they did this Sunday as well.  This was how we entered on Sunday night at 7 when we came back to the park after leaving.  I think it has something to do with exiting traffic.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: History Buff on December 08, 2015, 10:40:02 PM
Did I see people entering through the First Aid station, Friday evening?  It seemed that way as we sat there, eating our glazed funnel cake.  A citizen was directing the people coming from that direction to go up the hill, because the parade was coming down the hill.


Yes they did this Sunday as well.  This was how we entered on Sunday night at 7 when we came back to the park after leaving.  I think it has something to do with exiting traffic.

That was exactly what I was thinking.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: chittlins on December 10, 2015, 10:42:50 AM
This could easily go for an idea for an entertainment/lodging district at the CC site but what they put in a specialty popsicle shop in The City.
http://m.bizjournals.com/memphis/news/2015/12/09/popsicle-shop-to-open-in-east-memphis.html
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: sdcfan88 on March 19, 2016, 01:28:21 AM
Still kinda new here after lurking for a while so I hope it is okay to bump this.

Anyhow, with SDC having a history of re-utilizing defunct rides/attractions to build new ones, I would like to see the old Waterboggen Tower and the ride footprint re-utilized and have a Bobsled Coaster built around it using the tower as either the station or as a theming piece for a lift hill to hide the initial drop. The way a bobsled coaster is designed, it could be made to be compact and family friendly (since SDC likes to have family friendly rides in their parks) yet still have enough intensity to satisfy the thrill seekers. It would help to also bring balance to this side of the park for thrill riders since it only has ThuNderaTion as a major ride/coaster over there now. 
(I am aware Firefall now exists over there and it is the same shot tower recycled from CC however, it is not enough to fill the void left in the absence of the Waterboggen)
Anyways the Bobsled Coaster could be steel like La Vibora at SFOT or wooden like Flying Turns at Knoebels. Plus this would be something new that SDC does not already have that would fit well into the 1880's theme if done properly.

And on another note I would love to see the park rebuild OzCat up there. Yes it probably wont happen even though a lot of people loved that coaster, but I think SDC was always a great fit for a good traditional (non inverting) wood coaster since Dollywood now has a Traditional Wood Coaster and a RMC, but hey I can dream. lol

(see attachments)

In the last attachment the coaster layouts are fit to scale using Google Maps imagery.

Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: chittlins on March 19, 2016, 07:55:29 AM
Flying Turns certainly.has the look and feel of an SDC ride but it took a long time to get that thing going plus they have to play around with load weights so capacity issues would likely arise.

I agree there is too much emphasis on inversions and there's still a massive need for a woody without them. Check out the new wood coaster at ZDT. I plan on riding it this June. OzCat was a great layout but it was was on a completely flat footprint. Those do not exist at SDC on that scale and any new non inverting coaster would have to be designed differently. OzCat should have never been allowed to rot and at least kept open is part of a free admission Funplex, which is what CC should have been converted to and just have ditched the costly shows.

I'll say this again, they need more indoor rides due to the booming Holiday season, it can be small, compact steel coasters, there's even wooden concepts out there. They can have spinning cars, I just posted another example of an indoor spinner by gerstlauer on another thread. Mack has several indoor examples. They can included a drop track section. I think that would be a great redo of the FITH track system, turning the bridge into a drop track or tilt track section into a better in the dark ride experience ending.

SDC also needs a more modern Toy Story/Buzz Light type  dark ride
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Swoosh on March 19, 2016, 09:51:55 AM
Rain is kryptonite to the bobsled coasters - and don't we already have that role covered with PowderKeg?
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: shavethewhales on March 20, 2016, 08:16:06 PM
I love bobsled coasters. La Vibora is actually one of my favorites. Unfortunately they are probably the least efficient coaster type that you can build. La Vibora is a 2 hour wait with a meager crowd, and I only get to ride it because I utilize the little known single riders line.

Flying turns looks amazing, but it took what, 6 years for them to design it from scratch and get reliable enough to open? And it's not much better capacity wise than La Vibora.

SDC is at the point where capacity is a leading component of their design process. Sounds like we've already had a few days this season where even Wildfire has had hour+ waits.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: sdcfan88 on March 20, 2016, 09:52:49 PM
Understandable. It just seemed like good fit due to the space requiring a fairly compact coaster/thrill ride to complement TNT, Firefall and the Expo Coaster and be able to re-use the tower/station area from the former WB ride.

Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Swoosh on March 20, 2016, 10:30:11 PM
Honestly I see a B&M inverted and a dive coaster coming to the park before a bobsled but I'm thinking capacity more than anything
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: sdcfan88 on March 20, 2016, 10:30:18 PM
If I had to choose a new coaster on that side of the park I would rather have OzCat back anyways. That was a fantastic compact wood coaster. With Dollywood having two great wood coasters now, why not SDC? It was just $4 million to build right? With the Herschends pretty much abandoning Celebration City as an amusement park while having SDC absorb that parks assets and its concept as a night time family amusement/carnival park, I don't see why they could not just modify the design slightly and rebuild the coaster by the entrance to the Grand Expo and retheme that area around it with the new and improved OzCat as its centerpiece. It seems to be the pattern they are doing already since they basically did that with the shot tower in Fireman's Landing. I am sure it would not cost much more to modify the design from the original blueprints and construction documents to fit SDC's terrain, they could even redo the original coasters station area and do it like they did Wildfire by having it on a pier on the hillside. As for the Expo retheme, they could turn the Expo into an area to celebrate the Ozark's local wildlife since they already have animal themed kiddie rides over there which I felt were way out of place, the frogs and insect rides are okay but they could change the Elephant ride into Hawks or Owls and the Teacups into Snapping Turtles or something. The ship themed rides and the larger carnival rides are somewhat acceptable as they are but I could see some slight modifications being applied to them as well.

EDIT: Just saw the post made when I originally wrote this. I would love to see what kind of new B&M they do install. I Love their coasters. I was just looking over the 2017 thread. $40 million you say?
Title: to merge
Post by: sdcfan88 on June 14, 2016, 07:51:33 PM
Just saw this comment posted on a SDC Facebook group I am involved with in response to my construction marker photos:
Quote
I received a survey in the last couple of weeks and all the questions were based on which theme I preferred, a mine theme or western theme for a new roller coaster that spins. I had also been told by a SDC citizen that I trust that the Flooded Mine was either being removed or changed drastically. The survey made me wonder if the two were related?

And an employee's response:
Quote
All we can say is it is planned for 2018.

What do you think they are gonna replace the Flooded Mine with? It would have to either be a large flat ride or a very compact coaster/water ride, possibly enclosed OR could the station/plaza of the big coaster possibly be in its place and the lift hill will cross over the Valley Road pathway and then go down into the valley past Echo Hollow? Personally, the latter theory I find to be unlikely as I doubt they would do something like that as it would kill the ambience of that area.
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Coaster on June 14, 2016, 08:49:25 PM
What do you think they are gonna replace the Flooded Mine with? It would have to either be a large flat ride or a very compact coaster/water ride, possibly enclosed OR could the station/plaza of the big coaster possibly be in its place and the lift hill will cross over the Valley Road pathway and then go down into the valley past Echo Hollow? Personally, the latter theory I find to be unlikely as I doubt they would do something like that as it would kill the ambience of that area.

Interesting since last we had all heard was that FM was definitely safe...I'd say take all information with a grain of salt until more concrete evidence shows itself. I really hate the idea of a lift hill going over Valley Road. It would be awesome at a different park but definitely doesn't fit the profile of SDC.

I think a revamp of the entrance has to be in SDC's 2017 plans at this point, with everything going on in Orlando right now (RIP to all the lives lost), and the news that the terrorist may have scouted Disney Springs at WDW before attacking the night club. We have already seen an increase in security with the bag checks but unfortunately a bottleneck of hundreds, maybe thousands of people in a small space just isn't safe anymore. The entrance needs to be re-done to allow for a more fluid entrance and exit for guests, which would also allow for even more safety measures to be put into place to enter the park.

It's so sad that we have to think about these sorts of things now but I think it has to be done. I know that nowhere can be made perfectly safe, but if improvements need to be done then they should.
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: sdcfan88 on June 14, 2016, 09:28:27 PM
Yeah I hope the idea of FM being replaced by the new coaster station is not happening either. To be honest, I will really hate to see either go even though the latter with the entrance/exit is a disaster waiting to happen.
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Swoosh on June 14, 2016, 09:52:45 PM
Unless the plans have been severely (and I mean SEVERELY) altered then the station won't be anywhere near FM (and by that I mean it'll be across the walkway and over by the EH bathroom). 
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: sdcfan88 on June 14, 2016, 11:01:18 PM
FWIW I was also hearing that employees have also been intentionally saying misinformation to throw off some of the chatter regarding the construction as they have been getting a few inquiries from the GP who have been seeing it down in the valley. I assume this is to possibly reduce the chance of information leaks of what the actual project entails. So all of this from my post above could be BS considering it seems to be more of the outlandish rumors floating around out there right now. Especially since these comments I read were posted on a big social media platform like Facebook.
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: HumphreyHawk on June 15, 2016, 08:44:41 AM
All rumors.....I don't believe anything....

Closing FM would be a disaster unless they are replacing it a a more modern dark ride.  A disney-like people mover (people eater) with AC/heat would be a great move.  But it's hard to image SDC investing in that AND a coaster.
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Pudgy Jones on June 15, 2016, 10:10:51 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again (in case there's any truth to the rumor and decision-makers are reading this)...you can ride roller coasters at any theme park in the world. You can only ride the Flooded Mine (and Fire in the Hole) at Silver Dollar City. They are sacred and need to remain forever!
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Runner1960 on June 15, 2016, 10:12:34 AM
I agree, But if they are not going to maintain them then whats the point ?
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: shavethewhales on June 15, 2016, 10:30:57 AM
I agree, But if they are not going to maintain them then whats the point ?

Who says they can't maintain them? As with other things they've done before, I believe they let a lot of things slip so that people start saying things like this. That way they can blow it all down and put in whatever cookie cutter fairground ride in and some people will think it's an improvement.

FM has always been a fantastic ride that will always stand the test of time, not to mention the fact that it offers a rare true family ride experience and is indoor so it is a refuge from heat and weather. It's such a tremendous asset, and I am still very pessimistic that anything new will even come close to being as good as it is. I still notice details I haven't noticed before on just about every ride. It's just about the last piece of classic SDC that's been left mostly untouched.

But yes, the signs are growing that they want to take it out. Not that they need to, but they want to. It would be weird to do it at the same time as building a new coaster across the street though...
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Madtwins on June 15, 2016, 11:52:27 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again (in case there's any truth to the rumor and decision-makers are reading this)...you can ride roller coasters at any theme park in the world. You can only ride the Flooded Mine (and Fire in the Hole) at Silver Dollar City. They are sacred and need to remain forever!

Yes yes yes
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Swoosh on June 15, 2016, 12:02:07 PM
I agree, But if they are not going to maintain them then whats the point ?

Who says they can't maintain them? As with other things they've done before, I believe they let a lot of things slip so that people start saying things like this. That way they can blow it all down and put in whatever cookie cutter fairground ride in and some people will think it's an improvement.

FM has always been a fantastic ride that will always stand the test of time, not to mention the fact that it offers a rare true family ride experience and is indoor so it is a refuge from heat and weather. It's such a tremendous asset, and I am still very pessimistic that anything new will even come close to being as good as it is. I still notice details I haven't noticed before on just about every ride. It's just about the last piece of classic SDC that's been left mostly untouched.

But yes, the signs are growing that they want to take it out. Not that they need to, but they want to. It would be weird to do it at the same time as building a new coaster across the street though...

What's weird is that MORE effects are working this year then last.  Yet we have people complaining. 
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Runner1960 on June 15, 2016, 01:05:50 PM
I agree, But if they are not going to maintain them then whats the point ?

Who says they can't maintain them? As with other things they've done before, I believe they let a lot of things slip so that people start saying things like this. That way they can blow it all down and put in whatever cookie cutter fairground ride in and some people will think it's an improvement.

FM has always been a fantastic ride that will always stand the test of time, not to mention the fact that it offers a rare true family ride experience and is indoor so it is a refuge from heat and weather. It's such a tremendous asset, and I am still very pessimistic that anything new will even come close to being as good as it is. I still notice details I haven't noticed before on just about every ride. It's just about the last piece of classic SDC that's been left mostly untouched.

But yes, the signs are growing that they want to take it out. Not that they need to, but they want to. It would be weird to do it at the same time as building a new coaster across the street though...

I am not saying can they maintain them? I am saying they should maintain them. I have not been there this year but last year FM and FITH had major issues. Over the years major scenes have been allowed to deteriorate or be replaced. Both attractions are unique and I would hate to see them go. But, Fm lost its uniqueness when it went to the shootout concept. If SDC is like any other corporation Maintenance dollars are not as flashy as capital dollars so it is easier to just board a broken feature over than fix it. I would love to see them restore both to the former glory days.
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: t-n-t on June 15, 2016, 04:42:32 PM
As much as I love FM, I wouldn't be too sad if they removed it.  It takes up a lot of space and frankfly, just not that exciting.  I get the sentimant by all but I don't know, I think they could really use that space to make something much more fun and exciting.
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Swoosh on June 15, 2016, 06:22:00 PM
As much as I love FM, I wouldn't be too sad if they removed it.  It takes up a lot of space and frankfly, just not that exciting.  I get the sentimant by all but I don't know, I think they could really use that space to make something much more fun and exciting.

You shut your dirty mouth right now
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Madtwins on June 15, 2016, 06:41:31 PM
As much as I love FM, I wouldn't be too sad if they removed it.  It takes up a lot of space and frankfly, just not that exciting.  I get the sentimant by all but I don't know, I think they could really use that space to make something much more fun and exciting.


 >:(
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Madtwins on June 15, 2016, 07:15:44 PM
Rides like fm are unique and the things that make sdc awesome
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: joshblakebran on June 15, 2016, 09:01:41 PM
FM is a classic and one of my family's favorite rides...something that everybody in the family is willing and can ride together. It would be a travesty if it were removed.
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Madtwins on June 15, 2016, 09:04:24 PM
FM is a classic and one of my family's favorite rides...something that everybody in the family is willing and can ride together. It would be a travesty if it were removed.

Yes it would be!!
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: joshblakebran on June 15, 2016, 09:05:25 PM
Shame on you t-n-t for suggesting such a thing. I'm almost thinking there needs to be some sort of screening that has to take place  before your allowed to  become an SDC fan member...LOL
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: chittlins on June 16, 2016, 07:52:00 AM
Two for one rides are not unheard of Phantasialand is pulling this off right right now with a coastereo with triple launches and a family coaster sharing one immensely themed up area. It's the same thing I have suggested for an American Plunge redo, a new flume with reverse sections and all the latest tricks for those rides and a simple train themed coaster that shares the same footprint that briefly interacts with the flume like running side by side for a short moment lime the trains out west by a roaring river and crossing the splash zone of of one of the drops. It's a way to get more out of expensive theming like faux rockwork.
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: HumphreyHawk on June 16, 2016, 10:13:03 AM
TNT has a point.....it is not a very exciting ride. 

Demo of people who love it: SDC fans, little ones (most boys) who love the guns, parents who appreciate the break off their feet, AC, and/or getting to ride as a family.

Demo of people who think it's a little dull:  Almost all teens, all older who aren't dragged on by a SDC fan or kid, Most of the GP. 

I would argue most of the GP who aren't theme park nerds or SDC fans are not going to understand uniqueness of the ride and won't be impressed with it's features, technology, or story.  I'd guess that it's not getting may rerides from that demo who is not impressed.  I bet it gets a lot of "that was cute" type of comments from new riders.....or a lot of "that was more boring than I remember" from reriders.

Remember that the closest thing to FM out their are all the newer indoor rides like the Justice Leagues at Six Flags, Spiderman at Universal, the Toy Story rides or other people mover rides at Disney.  FMs story and technology is just amatuer if you compare.  Which is why I still think the best way and maybe the only way to 'save' FM is a major investment in its tech and theming to make it more modern.  More interaction with improved interactive scenes.....digital guns with boats linked together...add a few screens to show leaderboards and create 'bonus rounds' between scenes......have story options via the interaction to make each trip unique. 
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Swoosh on June 16, 2016, 10:24:55 AM
Take away the guns and the closest thing out there is Pirates of the Caribbean or It's A Small World. 

Not everything has to be cutting edge - and by your argument that would mean FITH was getting lower ridership too and we know that's not the case
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: History Buff on June 16, 2016, 10:48:19 AM
Some tech could be improved; that's for sure, but take out the targets and turn the lights back out!  Make it a surprise around every corner like it's supposed to be.  It wasn't intended to be exciting; it was intended to be tongue-in-cheek funny.  All of the humor is sucked out of the ride because of the shootout.
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: HumphreyHawk on June 16, 2016, 10:51:34 AM
True Swoosh....but FM is not selling any tickets anymore.....nor is FITH :(  No one is coming to SDC specifically to experience FM.  Maybe....Maybe....a few are coming for the collection of the old rides.  I understand they still have value and give value to the park....they are unique experiences the theme park nerds and SDC fans appreciate.....I love them but I'm a theme park nerd.....and SDC fan.  They took out the Flood Mine at Dollywood....? How much did that hurt there sales?  Again....I'm hoping that this huge project brings in a refurb/update to the ride.  Because the other option might be it completely goes away. 
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: joshblakebran on June 16, 2016, 11:10:15 AM
How do you know those rides don't sell tickets? On your earlier post about the demographics of who like or don't like...what data do you have to prove that. Do you know all teens and their opinions of the ride? Do you know all older who haven't been dragged on by a SDC fan or kid? I have sons and family members who fit in the demo that you state don't like the ride or find it dull and that is not the case at all for them. It is still one of their favorite rides...SDC is still a family park and it is important that they have family rides. Not all that is in the park has to be frilly and thrilly. I agree it may need to be updated, I'm happy with it as it is, but is a ride that needs to remain.
The day SDC loses it's theming and becomes nothing more than a Six Flags will be the day that they won't be selling me tickets. Hopefully it never gets to that point.
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: HumphreyHawk on June 16, 2016, 12:14:17 PM
How do you know those rides don't sell tickets? On your earlier post about the demographics of who like or don't like...what data do you have to prove that. Do you know all teens and their opinions of the ride? Do you know all older who haven't been dragged on by a SDC fan or kid? I have sons and family members who fit in the demo that you state don't like the ride or find it dull and that is not the case at all for them. It is still one of their favorite rides...SDC is still a family park and it is important that they have family rides. Not all that is in the park has to be frilly and thrilly. I agree it may need to be updated, I'm happy with it as it is, but is a ride that needs to remain.
The day SDC loses it's theming and becomes nothing more than a Six Flags will be the day that they won't be selling me tickets. Hopefully it never gets to that point.

Completely agree with you....I'd want any refurb to be family friendly and not a Six Flag knock off....keep it a magical mix between new ride tech and SDC theming/charm.

I have no insider knowledge....just my observations and assumption.....not going to pretend they are accurate.  I haven't heard anyone I know say...."I've got my seasons passes to ride FM next year!"......"I can't wait to ride FM today" (except my son).....I'm assuming that if FM isn't open at the rope drop....no one is that upset....they just wait for later.  Even when the guns aren't working (which happens)....I doubt anyone going to management asking for their money back. 

Btw....my 7yo boys favorite ride is FM...it's one of the very few rides that my wife can ride with the kids (she doesn't do spinning or thrill rides).  I don't want to loose it.....I want is upgraded :)
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: chittlins on June 16, 2016, 12:58:03 PM
True Swoosh....but FM is not selling any tickets anymore.....nor is FITH :(  No one is coming to SDC specifically to experience FM.  Maybe....Maybe....a few are coming for the collection of the old rides.  I understand they still have value and give value to the park....they are unique experiences the theme park nerds and SDC fans appreciate.....I love them but I'm a theme park nerd.....and SDC fan.  They took out the Flood Mine at Dollywood....? How much did that hurt there sales?  Again....I'm hoping that this huge project brings in a refurb/update to the ride.  Because the other option might be it completely goes away.

There should have been a big stink made for FITH's 50th, then a massive overhaul complete with newer tech, better props and a new ride system all the while keeping the original and uniquely SDC storyline. But...at the burning bridge a whole new "in the dark" section complete with a drop track sequence at the bridge followed by launch into the darkness with photos of you during the drop availible at the new end of ride Fire in the hole gift shop complete with Baldknobber plushies and with I got my pants stolt on Fire in the Hole t shirts.

Video of drop track found here near end of the video linked, now imagine a burning bridge giving out at the end of the show aspect of FITH and launched thru darkness still complete with a splash or simulated splash  at the end.

https://youtu.be/ml9nZassOu8

I like Flooded Mine but it needs something done to bring it up to date. I'm sure SDC has been pitched by dozens of companies to do so. The story is good and the attraction is attractive.

But you are talking to someone that thinks a modern  new Diving Bell ride is a no brainer and should have happened already considering the tech out there today with simulation rides and video displays.
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: shavethewhales on June 16, 2016, 01:02:31 PM
^Your speculation and reasoning all makes sense. It's being the devil's advocate on these forums though, lol.

"Upgrading" in the language of the PTB means essentially leveling the old attraction and building something brand new in semi-the same vein. The intricate flood prison mine theme will be eliminated in favor of some sort of PC/family-friendly/focus-group approved generic theme like "Mystery Mine". And don't forget the lame gimmicks thrown in to make it stand out from the competition like video screens that barely work or whatever.

Very very few classic dark ride "upgrades" turn out to be actual improvements. We've seen so many bite the dust over the past decade. Knott's stands out as a lone outlier that everyone points to, but I'm not sure the situations are the same here.


Anyway though, it's not worth getting too wound up until something actually happens. You never know where their plans will end up until the work actually begins.

I'm considering taking a trip in the near future after all to get an update. Might be a couple more weeks though.
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: chittlins on June 16, 2016, 01:08:27 PM
I can see the Baldknobbers too closely linked to a group I will not  name by today's PC police.
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: BackInTime9 on June 16, 2016, 02:04:40 PM
We're getting way off topic. Perhaps a new thread should be started called "Save the SDC Classics" for these lengthy and passionately driven discussions around FM and FITH.

I know it's easy to get sucked into the black hole of side related issues, but as for this thread, can we just focus on speculation surrounding the ongoing work at the park? Until we see evidence of work happening in another area, let's stay focused on the area in and around EH. 
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Swoosh on June 16, 2016, 05:08:25 PM
I'm still curious how this pertains to 2017 attraction discussion
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: sdcfan88 on June 16, 2016, 06:21:10 PM
Yeah the topic currently being discussed has trailed off course quite a bit. The initial statement about the Flooded Mine being changed or removed is still technically just speculation and rumor as it always has.

Is it August yet? lol
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Preachin_Bill on June 16, 2016, 06:36:28 PM
I'm still curious how this pertains to 2017 attraction discussion
If people want to talk about it let them.
Humphrey is wrong in so many ways.shave hit the nail on the head.
If you want me to stay on topic here is my speculation: the ptb will continue to ignore American plunge and fith while refusing to advertise or upgrade flooded mine. You and others will continue to pretend to know what is going on with the new ride and one of your guesses will be right so you can say I told you so. I will stop buying season passes if the above is true, which it is.
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Swoosh on June 16, 2016, 06:39:34 PM
 ::)
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: shavethewhales on June 16, 2016, 07:21:58 PM
I've moved posts about FM to this thread.

It's fine to veer off course every once in awhile on these speculation threads, at least as long as it's tangentially related to the topic at hand. The speculation of FM being taken out/replaced/redone does go hand in hand with other rumors about re-doing this area of the park. It's all rumor though.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: tinmann620 on June 16, 2016, 08:29:45 PM
FYI: FITH won't be 50 until 2022, and FM in 2018. The Frisco quietly celebrated it's 50th a couple years ago, with ribbons handed out for a few days. So, BOTH have time for some tlc before their ACTUAL 50ths~
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Preachin_Bill on June 16, 2016, 09:06:02 PM
::)
::)
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: joshblakebran on June 16, 2016, 10:39:00 PM
How do you know those rides don't sell tickets? On your earlier post about the demographics of who like or don't like...what data do you have to prove that. Do you know all teens and their opinions of the ride? Do you know all older who haven't been dragged on by a SDC fan or kid? I have sons and family members who fit in the demo that you state don't like the ride or find it dull and that is not the case at all for them. It is still one of their favorite rides...SDC is still a family park and it is important that they have family rides. Not all that is in the park has to be frilly and thrilly. I agree it may need to be updated, I'm happy with it as it is, but is a ride that needs to remain.
The day SDC loses it's theming and becomes nothing more than a Six Flags will be the day that they won't be selling me tickets. Hopefully it never gets to that point.
:)

Completely agree with you....I'd want any refurb to be family friendly and not a Six Flag knock off....keep it a magical mix between new ride tech and SDC theming/charm.

I have no insider knowledge....just my observations and assumption.....not going to pretend they are accurate.  I haven't heard anyone I know say...."I've got my seasons passes to ride FM next year!"......"I can't wait to ride FM today" (except my son).....I'm assuming that if FM isn't open at the rope drop....no one is that upset....they just wait for later.  Even when the guns aren't working (which happens)....I doubt anyone going to management asking for their money back. 

Btw....my 7yo boys favorite ride is FM...it's one of the very few rides that my wife can ride with the kids (she doesn't do spinning or thrill rides).  I don't want to loose it.....I want is upgraded :)
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Runner1960 on June 17, 2016, 06:36:15 AM
FYI: FITH won't be 50 until 2022, and FM in 2018. The Frisco quietly celebrated it's 50th a couple years ago, with ribbons handed out for a few days. So, BOTH have time for some tlc before their ACTUAL 50ths~

That's what I thought also. I remember riding FITH in its inaugural year. 12 years old and the first time I had ever been to a theme park. I believe the saloon opened the same year too.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Dewayne on August 06, 2016, 08:01:37 AM
I noticed earlier this year that HFE bought Talking Rocks Cavern. It wasnt until yesterday I saw SDC and Talking Rocks Cavern on a map. It looks like they are about 2 miles away, going straight through the trees. Is there any chance they would ever make their own way of transportation to go from SDC and back? Will they ever expand that far?
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: History Buff on August 06, 2016, 10:56:26 AM
Talking Rocks has been in the Herschend family for many years.  Maybe they just put in into the corporation, but I haven't heard.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Junior, too! on August 07, 2016, 09:11:01 AM
Talking Rocks was named FAIRY CAVE by original owner/developer Truman Powell, who sold the property to SDC many, many years ago...late 60s or early 70s. They renamed the cave because of a light and sound presentation they developed that covered how caves were formed...thus "talking" rocks. Truman's son is Walker Powell, who this year is100 years old. I saw him at Founders Day and spoke with him. Walker was an original SDC employee who worked at the duplicating lathe for years and years. By the way, Jack's son, Bruce, manages and operates Talking Rocks, and has for several years.
Title: to merge
Post by: Injun Joe on January 05, 2017, 07:39:31 PM
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/IJSDC1/th_american-plunge-eWAJ.jpg) (http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/IJSDC1/media/american-plunge-eWAJ.jpg.html)

This part should remain untouched.   The rest can be changed, imho.  I know it's off topic but it was brought up and someone has to stick up for this beautiful scene (and on ride drop!)
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Dewayne on January 05, 2017, 07:44:13 PM
The only good part, of course. That is why I even went with any name at all. Some say the best and scariest part of any ride is the chain lift hill though.
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Injun Joe on January 05, 2017, 07:53:30 PM
Yeah I'd like the whirlpool scene fixed and the water gag kept too but just don't lose the part pictured.  That's my 2 cents on that.  Oh yeah,  I still call powderkeg Buzzsaw Falls.  Or sometimes Kegbuzz.
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Coaster on January 05, 2017, 10:26:27 PM
When I was younger, I used to think Lost River of the Ozarks was called, "the round boats." To this day that is what my family and I call it.
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: mhguy77 on January 06, 2017, 08:55:11 AM
It would be a great thing to move the large splash boat from CC over to SDC and revamp the Plunge.  They could keep the look and trees / theming but increase capacity and bring it back to tell a story, have a tangible theme.  Its really needed, the flume is like a fairhaired stepchild.
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: sanddunerider on January 06, 2017, 10:03:39 AM
Never thought we would need this thread.  ;D I picked up what each abbreviation was pretty quick by using a map. Some I could not figure out because they were hard, so I messaged someone to help me out. Most of us figured them out pretty quick once we joined.

HB, I never thought of Wilsons farm that way, but you do bring up a great point. Where are the Wilsons, or is it just Mr. Wilson himself? There is no statue, cardboard cutout, or character in the area. Is he hiding in the farmers market all day? Also AP (until it is removed/updated) doesnt deserve anything other than a simple, bland name like "the log ride". The ride itself is so bland and boring without the theming anyway.

Mr Wilson?  he is over behind the fence, watching over the top of it.  see his eyes and nose? .  LOL..  (OK,.  Trivia,. what show was that?)
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Madtwins on January 06, 2017, 10:19:21 AM
 ;D home improvement
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Gilligan on January 06, 2017, 10:42:28 AM
;D home improvement

 ;D ;D ;D   

And, yes, the Plunge needs help!  IMHO, I thought it was the one of the best themed in the park.  I loved the tunnel and the whirlpool.  So sad to see it in disrepair.
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: sanddunerider on January 06, 2017, 01:24:48 PM
;D home improvement


Correct,  Good Job!!   LOL..... :)
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Madtwins on January 07, 2017, 01:59:28 AM
;D home improvement

 ;D ;D ;D   



 ;D
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Dewayne on January 08, 2017, 02:11:10 PM
Love the idea of bringing Roaring falls into the picture and make AP better, but is Roaring Falls still there? I thought someone said it went to another park. Doing almost anything to AP will make it better at this point. Cant get much worse from here....
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Preachin_Bill on January 12, 2017, 04:21:14 PM
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/IJSDC1/th_american-plunge-eWAJ.jpg) (http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/IJSDC1/media/american-plunge-eWAJ.jpg.html)

This part should remain untouched.   The rest can be changed, imho.  I know it's off topic but it was brought up and someone has to stick up for this beautiful scene (and on ride drop!)
Agreed.
The ride needs updated big time, but I like the theme of the American Plunge.  Fits the American summer stuff well.  Just needs some big updates.  Crazy they haven't done it yet.
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: mhguy77 on January 16, 2017, 02:28:37 PM
Quote
Love the idea of bringing Roaring falls into the picture and make AP better, but is Roaring Falls still there? I thought someone said it went to another park. Doing almost anything to AP will make it better at this point. Cant get much worse from here....

It was there last week I thought when I drove by.
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: History Buff on January 16, 2017, 05:56:18 PM
Put it in GE and theme it as the exotic Amazon River Rapids.
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Swoosh on January 16, 2017, 10:04:37 PM
Put it in GE and theme it as the exotic Amazon River Rapids.

Maybe not that theme but I think GE is a good spot for it. How about the kiddie rides get moved to HDH and then it could go in that culdusac.  They could then close off that area (and ride) during the colder months.  Chute'd'chutes were popular at Expositions so it could work. 
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: History Buff on January 17, 2017, 11:43:53 AM
Put it in GE and theme it as the exotic Amazon River Rapids.

Maybe not that theme but I think GE is a good spot for it. How about the kiddie rides get moved to HDH and then it could go in that culdusac.  They could then close off that area (and ride) during the colder months.  Chute'd'chutes were popular at Expositions so it could work.

I'm all for that plan.  The theme just fit with the other "exhibits from foreign lands".
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: mhguy77 on January 19, 2017, 07:33:12 AM
Quote
Maybe not that theme but I think GE is a good spot for it. How about the kiddie rides get moved to HDH and then it could go in that culdusac.
I would think since the RR is just an ovel that you could break that form and run those boats through a longer track if they wanted putting the drop at the end.  Possibly theme the trip to something that would fit.  A Mine, Float Trip, Swamp Monster ext.  Why keep it short and boring.  Why not do what Six Flags and Cedar point dont do and put some extra time and effort into it.
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Swoosh on January 19, 2017, 01:06:05 PM
Quote
Maybe not that theme but I think GE is a good spot for it. How about the kiddie rides get moved to HDH and then it could go in that culdusac.
I would think since the RR is just an ovel that you could break that form and run those boats through a longer track if they wanted putting the drop at the end.  Possibly theme the trip to something that would fit.  A Mine, Float Trip, Swamp Monster ext.  Why keep it short and boring.  Why not do what Six Flags and Cedar point dont do and put some extra time and effort into it.

Interesting idea.  They could do something like Escape From Pompeii. I'm all for ripping out American Plunge and all the leftovers from the Float Trip and doing it right with new animatronics and the such.  It could be the Inventors/Explorers league that Doc Harris is the president of.  A whole new "Inventors/Explorers" section could be made
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: HumphreyHawk on January 19, 2017, 03:24:48 PM
Quote
Maybe not that theme but I think GE is a good spot for it. How about the kiddie rides get moved to HDH and then it could go in that culdusac.
I would think since the RR is just an ovel that you could break that form and run those boats through a longer track if they wanted putting the drop at the end.  Possibly theme the trip to something that would fit.  A Mine, Float Trip, Swamp Monster ext.  Why keep it short and boring.  Why not do what Six Flags and Cedar point dont do and put some extra time and effort into it.

Interesting idea.  They could do something like Escape From Pompeii. I'm all for ripping out American Plunge and all the leftovers from the Float Trip and doing it right with new animatronics and the such.  It could be the Inventors/Explorers league that Doc Harris is the president of.  A whole new "Inventors/Explorers" section could be made

That whole area of the park need some loving.  The Plunge lot and the walkways around it could really be opened up for better traffic flow to help relieve the main loop.  My dream solution would be a newly build and themed plunge ride behind the current lot (great spot for a drop tower too) and use the current space for a new plaza area for the ride and for WF....and extend the WF path back to PK as a secondary route.  Maybe that helps alleviate the congestion around the lumberjack camp/saloon and create some more spots for retail.....and a possible new link for any additional coasters between/around WF and PK.
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Swoosh on January 19, 2017, 04:42:13 PM
I know things change all the time but I'm pretty sure the PK/WF connector is coming in the next 5 years or so as that lot between them has been earmarked for a future large ride
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: sirwillow on January 20, 2017, 07:56:09 AM
I know things change all the time but I'm pretty sure the PK/WF connector is coming in the next 5 years or so as that lot between them has been earmarked for a future large ride

You mean the one that was rumored to be happening before Outlaw Run?  ;)
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Swoosh on January 20, 2017, 08:37:10 AM
I know things change all the time but I'm pretty sure the PK/WF connector is coming in the next 5 years or so as that lot between them has been earmarked for a future large ride

You mean the one that was rumored to be happening before Outlaw Run?  ;)

There are about 6-7 plots of land that they have earmarked for large additions, this is just one of them.  I think you are confusing Time Traveler with Outlaw Run. 
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: sanddunerider on January 20, 2017, 03:21:06 PM
I know things change all the time but I'm pretty sure the PK/WF connector is coming in the next 5 years or so as that lot between them has been earmarked for a future large ride

If and when they do that, i hope the keep the waterfall area.  I am partial to that view.. ::)
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Gilligan on January 20, 2017, 04:05:21 PM
ME TOO, Sand!  My favorite lunch spot!
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: mhguy77 on January 21, 2017, 09:46:34 AM
Quote
If and when they do that, i hope the keep the waterfall area.  I am partial to that view.. ::)
I agree, a SDC classic spot.
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: sanddunerider on January 22, 2017, 05:03:54 PM
Quote
If and when they do that, i hope the keep the waterfall area.  I am partial to that view.. ::)
I agree, a SDC classic spot.
ME TOO, Sand!  My favorite lunch spot!

I am sure it is for a lot of people...! ;D
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Injun Joe on January 22, 2017, 10:01:17 PM
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/IJSDC1/Mobile%20Uploads/2017-01-22%2021.56.46.jpg)
Its aged well and almost looks natural.   Brangelina approved.
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee402/IJSDC1/Mobile%20Uploads/2017-01-22%2021.55.58.jpg)
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Swoosh on January 22, 2017, 11:04:22 PM
It actually hasn't aged well but luckily its issues are not visible to the GP.
Also Brad and Angelina haven't been together for awhile now ... unless that was the joke
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: Injun Joe on January 23, 2017, 05:08:21 AM
So it needs new plumbing?  Some reenforcement?  Get 'r done.  It looks great in my picture and Brangelina loved it, can't you see?
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: mhguy77 on January 23, 2017, 07:46:50 AM
Quote
It actually hasn't aged well but luckily its issues are not visible to the GP.

Its some of the longest lasting gunite rockwork in the city I think. (thats still used and under some stress)
This is the same post/mesh wire/ blow on concrete  that was used for the first attractions at SDC.  They have replaced it at other rides with wood and othe dressings.  Possibly there is a high cost in maintaining this?  I know WDW uses this same method but they play with the finish and paint it.  The long and the short of it is this is a replacable, fixable,upgradable object.  I hope it never goes, it is my favorite eating spot.
Title: Re: to merge
Post by: DeweyBald on January 23, 2017, 03:39:53 PM
Ya'll remember when Grandfathers Mansion had the waterfall next to the front door?  That was cool.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: shavethewhales on January 23, 2017, 07:14:00 PM
^That was cool. Unfortunately, just like that waterfall, when the big one finally runs into problems that cost real money to keep going it will be unceremoniously torn out. That's just the way the PTB work at the moment. They see nice things as being nice for awhile, but when they get old they want to tear out and replace with something else instead of keeping things the same. That's business though, and I'm sure they have less options than we sometimes think.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Injun Joe on January 24, 2017, 01:41:39 AM
It has a bit of a Frank Lloyd Wright feeling about it, does the waterfall.  Or at least Alex Jordan, no knock intended.

Maybe we can get Trump to back rolling back the ADA too, or at least grant an exception for historic theme park attractions, if that's what it takes to save Grandfathers Mansion.  A haunted house would be cool  too.  I'd go bat guano crazy for that, no joking.  A sweet ride-through Grandfathers Mansion replacement could free up the old space to be reutilized, hopefully with the exterior intact.  Don't get me wrong, I think 'funhouse' style attractions should be allowed to continue, and of course our beloved own Grandfathers Mansion.

https://youtu.be/NSXOgI3Fyhs (https://youtu.be/NSXOgI3Fyhs)
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: chittlins on January 25, 2017, 02:17:09 PM
It has a bit of a Frank Lloyd Wright feeling about it, does the waterfall.  Or at least Alex Jordan, no knock intended.

Maybe we can get Trump to back rolling back the ADA too, or at least grant an exception for historic theme park attractions, if that's what it takes to save Grandfathers Mansion.  A haunted house would be cool  too.  I'd go bat guano crazy for that, no joking.  A sweet ride-through Grandfathers Mansion replacement could free up the old space to be reutilized, hopefully with the exterior intact.  Don't get me wrong, I think 'funhouse' style attractions should be allowed to continue, and of course our beloved own Grandfathers Mansion.

https://youtu.be/NSXOgI3Fyhs (https://youtu.be/NSXOgI3Fyhs)

A new shooter dark ride where you rip off Ghostbusters and capture Spirits with some steampunk looking contraption, the gimmicks found in the current Gransfather's Mansion would be good for the queue. Could be SDC's first foray into the Screenz based rides so popular with Disney and Uni.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Swoosh on July 15, 2017, 10:44:04 PM
I have nothing to back this up, just a gut-feeling....

I see the park taking out the "traditionals" one by one nd replacing them with newer modern versions.
If I was a betting man, I'd say it would go Flooded Mine, Fire in the Hole, Lost River and the. American Plunge.
Each attraction needs a major overhaul and I just imagine the PTB would rather pay for a lower maintenance cost version then to continue throwing money at the current versions. 

It's also easier to get ROI when promoting a brand new state of the art version of an older beloved ride.

I know it's not ideal to us purists but I'm coming to terms that this is going to happen sooner not later
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: chittlins on July 15, 2017, 11:13:49 PM
I have nothing to back this up, just a gut-feeling....

I see the park taking out the "traditionals" one by one nd replacing them with newer modern versions.
If I was a betting man, I'd say it would go Flooded Mine, Fire in the Hole, Lost River and the. American Plunge.
Each attraction needs a major overhaul and I just imagine the PTB would rather pay for a lower maintenance cost version then to continue throwing money at the current versions. 

It's also easier to get ROI when promoting a brand new state of the art version of an older beloved ride.

I know it's not ideal to us purists but I'm coming to terms that this is going to happen sooner not later

I'vr said it before, "Verbolten" Fire in the Hole, updated tech, AAs and HD screens for fire up to the Burning Bridge. Bridge is drop track to black and then launch into a new in the dark coaster segment.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Swoosh on July 15, 2017, 11:38:03 PM
I agree that it needs to have the drop track.  Would you be against them building the new Fire in the Hole in/by Fireman's Landing?   Even better, they could remove Boatworks Theatre and straighten the pathway to FL from the RR crossing then use all of the area left from WB down to FL for the new FITH.  It could have a huge show building that way. 

Now where the current FITH is, they can build a state of the art Theatre as a replacement for the loss of Boatworks. 
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Coaster on July 16, 2017, 09:41:35 AM
I am definitely not against updating our old favorites. I think American Plunge and FITH are in the worst shape of the four. However, updating is not the same as relocating as you are suggesting. I can see the benefits of that but I have to admit, I would have a hard time coming to grips with it even if I liked the final products.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: chittlins on July 16, 2017, 10:20:51 AM
I agree that it needs to have the drop track.  Would you be against them building the new Fire in the Hole in/by Fireman's Landing?   Even better, they could remove Boatworks Theatre and straighten the pathway to FL from the RR crossing then use all of the area left from WB down to FL for the new FITH.  It could have a huge show building that way. 

Now where the current FITH is, they can build a state of the art Theatre as a replacement for the loss of Boatworks.

Others here are at a disadvantage, as we have been on a drop track like Verbolten and know how fun of a ride it is. That's a Zierer and I doubt that SDC would chose them, Gerstlauer would be the one I'd presume since Intamin seems out of the question. Is there a Mack?

Yeah, I could live with a relocation of FITH. The important thing is the story and how they tell it. Needs to stay true.

I'm against Flooded Mine, They just need to redo the senes with modern tech and ditch the guns. See new Mystic Manor and Pirates.

American Plunge could use most of its existing for print, but a new version with multiple drops including a backwards section. Us park buffs have seen the new Chiapas at Phantasialand with it's dark secrions but this new one at Tayto Park could be more of what we could see at SDC and get two across seating to up the capacity.

https://youtu.be/xRrEHSRC4Mg

Pov
https://youtu.be/sp063KoSdFM

Still think they should get with Mack to do that and mix in a bobsled type coaster so that you get two ride to share the effort and money put into the rockwork. A coaster running along side and crossing the flume channel near drops would be awesome.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Swoosh on July 16, 2017, 12:31:08 PM
I am definitely not against updating our old favorites. I think American Plunge and FITH are in the worst shape of the four. However, updating is not the same as relocating as you are suggesting. I can see the benefits of that but I have to admit, I would have a hard time coming to grips with it even if I liked the final products.

Well I will tell you right now, to the PTB their version of "updating" will be to level the current and build all new from ground up so relocation seems like a null point with that in mind. 

One would think AP is in the worst shape but lack of theme has little to do with the actual ride mechanics.  FITH has some major holes in the roof now.  LR needs new troughs as the current ones are losing lots of water due to cracks.  FM needs a lot of expensive infrastructure work...

I just have a bad feeling that while everyone is distracted by the new shiny next season, one of these will quietly be closed and removed. 
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: shavethewhales on July 17, 2017, 11:08:34 AM
I agree. Of course, we've been having this same discussion for ten years solid now on this site, but we always knew it was a matter of time. I am still trying to be optimistic that they will do a good job keeping the true legacy alive, but its a tall order.

I do NOT want to see any of those screens like on the SF dark rides. They are cool in their own right, but totally against the hand made spirit of these classics.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Swoosh on July 17, 2017, 12:40:14 PM
I would not be against the way POTC at Shanghai Disney does it. 
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Tmboote on July 17, 2017, 05:23:59 PM
Now where the current FITH is, they can build a state of the art Theatre as a replacement for the loss of Boatworks.

If they were to move FITH and put a new theater in its current location, I wonder how congested that area would get having the Opera House, PK, Saloon, and new theater. If they could avoid that it would be really nice for the older people who visit SDC and only care about the shows to have more shows in one area.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: sanddunerider on July 17, 2017, 05:49:44 PM

I just have a bad feeling that while everyone is distracted by the new shiny next season, one of these will quietly be closed and removed.
[/quote]

I have had the same concerns, just havent voiced them.. :-\ :-\
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: chittlins on July 17, 2017, 06:51:44 PM
If a new version of FITH was built at Dockside, that would open up that area for a loop to the Outlaw Run area. A couple of western themed flats(preferably covered) would work. Those bull themed bumper cars in a barn would work. One adult size and one kiddie sized.

I just don't see another show building, productions are expensive, there's a reason one is shuttered.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: History Buff on July 17, 2017, 07:43:57 PM
If a new version of FITH was built at Dockside, that would open up that area for a loop to the Outlaw Run area. A couple of western themed flats(preferably covered) would work. Those bull themed bumper cars in a barn would work. One adult size and one kiddie sized.

I just don't see another show building, productions are expensive, there's a reason one is shuttered.

What is shuttered besides the Midtown stage?
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Swoosh on July 17, 2017, 07:52:07 PM
If a new version of FITH was built at Dockside, that would open up that area for a loop to the Outlaw Run area. A couple of western themed flats(preferably covered) would work. Those bull themed bumper cars in a barn would work. One adult size and one kiddie sized.

I just don't see another show building, productions are expensive, there's a reason one is shuttered.

What is shuttered besides the Midtown stage?

I think he's talking about Riverfront.  It's not really shuttered as Rockapella is going to be performing there soon. 
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: History Buff on July 17, 2017, 08:09:37 PM
That's what I figured.  I was going to mention magic shows, Rockapella, the living nativity, and other shows that are still in there.  I love that theater and would love to see a return to the old show format, but it hasn't really been shuttered.  It's also used for school music competitions and during the church of Christ weekend.

I'm actually surprised at how often the Opera House is not being used.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: dawsonrt on July 17, 2017, 09:45:37 PM
That's what I figured.  I was going to mention magic shows, Rockapella, the living nativity, and other shows that are still in there.  I love that theater and would love to see a return to the old show format, but it hasn't really been shuttered.  It's also used for school music competitions and during the church of Christ weekend.

I'm actually surprised at how often the Opera House is not being used.

Moving the Music Summit Choir Festival to the Opera House and opening it up to High School bands would be a good move. Sort of similar to the WoF Festival of Music.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Swoosh on July 17, 2017, 10:07:59 PM
That's what I figured.  I was going to mention magic shows, Rockapella, the living nativity, and other shows that are still in there.  I love that theater and would love to see a return to the old show format, but it hasn't really been shuttered.  It's also used for school music competitions and during the church of Christ weekend.

I'm actually surprised at how often the Opera House is not being used.

Moving the Music Summit Choir Festival to the Opera House and opening it up to High School bands would be a good move. Sort of similar to the WoF Festival of Music.

Here's the issue with using the Opera House for that - accessibility.  When the groups choral groups come to perform they can park the buses back behind Fireman's Landing while the group performs, then they get back on the bus and are shuttled back to the main entrance.  That's what they did with my band when we performed for the Firemans Landing Grand Opening.  We of course marched from the square down but then after our performance down at FL we boarded our buses and were taken back up to the front gate.  I honestly wished they had a performance venue closer to the front gate for this very reason -- and to help disperse the crowd more during the bigger show festivals.

AND FTR - I would love SDC to have a Festival of Music for Band as I would rather take my band there then to WOF but you do what you have to do.

 
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: dawsonrt on July 17, 2017, 10:32:07 PM

AND FTR - I would love SDC to have a Festival of Music for Band as I would rather take my band there then to WOF but you do what you have to do.

A little bit off topic, but I was not impressed with the WoF festival. Theater is a bit outdated and had no backstage where we could bring in equipment. We had to roll our equipment through the park to the theater, then down the rows of seats and lifted it to the stage. It was quite the headache especially when you're timed.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Swoosh on July 17, 2017, 11:35:26 PM

AND FTR - I would love SDC to have a Festival of Music for Band as I would rather take my band there then to WOF but you do what you have to do.

A little bit off topic, but I was not impressed with the WoF festival. Theater is a bit outdated and had no backstage where we could bring in equipment. We had to roll our equipment through the park to the theater, then down the rows of seats and lifted it to the stage. It was quite the headache especially when you're timed.

Oh please you had to roll it from the front gate around one ride and into the theatre.  The theatre is literally at the very front of the park.  What could you have possibly needed to bring that wasn't supplied for you by the park?
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: dawsonrt on July 18, 2017, 06:35:37 PM

Oh please you had to roll it from the front gate around one ride and into the theatre.  The theatre is literally at the very front of the park.  What could you have possibly needed to bring that wasn't supplied for you by the park?

True, but the state if the theater was eh
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Swoosh on July 18, 2017, 06:51:05 PM

Oh please you had to roll it from the front gate around one ride and into the theatre.  The theatre is literally at the very front of the park.  What could you have possibly needed to bring that wasn't supplied for you by the park?

True, but the state if the theater was eh

The theatre itself is fine, the lobby on the other hand could use some help. 
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Dewayne on July 19, 2017, 01:23:39 PM
I agree that it needs to have the drop track.  Would you be against them building the new Fire in the Hole in/by Fireman's Landing?   Even better, they could remove Boatworks Theatre and straighten the pathway to FL from the RR crossing then use all of the area left from WB down to FL for the new FITH.  It could have a huge show building that way. 

Now where the current FITH is, they can build a state of the art Theatre as a replacement for the loss of Boatworks.

I have heard about the water fountain next to RF being taken out (wont say who) and the pathway going through there somehow. Boatworks is in the oddest position than anything else because you have to walk around it.

Moving FITH there and making it go over the walkway would be cool. They could even go with a wilder manufacturer and make it look like the SDC version of MM. If they do that, it would take out the theater. They already have the Saloon and OH near FITH. If they add another theater next to a great one, that would be a head scratcher and possibly make the area even more congested than it already is.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: HumphreyHawk on July 20, 2017, 10:32:58 AM
Here where my mind wonders on the fate of the classics:  I have no inside knowledge....just my 'fun' speculation...

Have FiTH take a season off as a replacement attraction is built in that building.  Probably a "Justice League" type of ride.  Can even keep the theme and storyline....just add modern tech for a 'better' ride experience.

Add a new modern water ride and/or chute ride behind AP an open up a ton of new space in the AP lot to use for better path flow to WF and maybe close the loop over to PK.

I've always pictured a tower at the site of FM where might be able to reuse a lot of the building.  They find black gold under the mine....they unflood the mine....free the inmates to work the oil rig....and build a oil tower.  Build a 200ft tower of terror style ride that has a mining elevater move through the old path of the ride with all new theming in the mine....then lines up with a new oil tower (on the pond near the end of the ride) where a gusher of black gold takes you for a ride.  Would be a great centerpiece for for the middle of the park.

Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Swoosh on July 20, 2017, 05:12:51 PM
How about the replacement for AP be added to Fireman's Landing and utilize all of the land their behind the current rides and the old WB lot.  I do like the idea of a replacement being built to replace the ride before the current versions are removed. 
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: shavethewhales on July 21, 2017, 09:16:41 PM
After riding three more log flumes at Dorney, Hershey, and Knoebel's, I am even less impressed with AP sans the original tunnel. If only they had used more of the original Jim Owen's channel. The dark tunnel doesn't really feel like it adds anything to the ride experience, and unlike most other flumes, there's no "downward jog" section where the boats kind of careen down around a few turns or something.

Honestly I don't know what has kept them from doing something with it already. It is the perfect attraction to be remade in a big way since it has already lost what made it special anyway. I would love them if they built a new hopkins flume and included a shed/tunnel or something that paid homage to the original AP tunnel with a few animatronics or some kind of scene.

I really can't think of any modern ride system that could replace Flooded Mine with any resemblance of the same SDC feeling. They can make it work with a lot of good theming, but the ride system itself will really try to throw it toward a modern feeling. Anything like Justice League would be depressing for me, honestly. It's a good ride in it's own right, but even with some SDC theming it wouldn't hit any of the same notes. It would be more of a thrill ride. I hope they get something that everyone can ride no matter their condition like FM.

There are a lot of options for FiTH on the other hand... All they need is a new track/vehicle system and some new animatronics. Only problem is that there is no way in hell they'll keep the baldknobbers. Hello politically correct "mystery mine".
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Junior, too! on July 24, 2017, 07:56:18 AM
Quite some time ago, someone on this site suggested bringing back a float trip ride, but with a bigfoot theme, and called it The Creature on the Creek. I still think that is a great idea. A mystery mine is a good idea, too. I wonder how the kid on the Undercover Boss program is doing...what about his idea for a coaster on Lake Silver that plunges underwater!?!
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: chittlins on July 30, 2017, 10:26:24 AM
Quite some time ago, someone on this site suggested bringing back a float trip ride, but with a bigfoot theme, and called it The Creature on the Creek. I still think that is a great idea. A mystery mine is a good idea, too. I wonder how the kid on the Undercover Boss program is doing...what about his idea for a coaster on Lake Silver that plunges underwater!?!

With the advancement of acrylic tubes that you see in aquariums and for even underwater hotel rooms, I am shocked someone hasn't incorporated that onto coaster design especially Seaworld. It would really neat at a d bottom of a drop or just for a brake run back to the station to jazz up hosting hum moments
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: chittlins on July 30, 2017, 11:04:35 AM
So we all either know of or have rode Firechaser at Dollymounds. Here's another Gerstlauer ride that is much the same at Parc Astrix outside of Paris. I think they could have done more with the show sections

https://youtu.be/x_k6AmmZeyU

Now here's a Gerstlauer in Germany. It has a vertical with drop lift. Check out how it stops and drops before going on to the apex
https://youtu.be/rjLt98Q4LMM

Anyway, we know Gerstlauer is getting the trick track thing down pat. The do reverse launches , drop tracks, ect, ect, ect.

We'll after watching that Parc Astrix pov when it comes to that second stop to go back to the station I was thinking it needed more. It needed to be a drop track feature as a last hurrah.

Anyway, I have theorized that SDC needed a coaster that had a dark ride/coaster that either has a drop se ton as part of the queue or ride. Think getting in a mine shaft elevator and then, have some trouble, yikes.

Anyhoo, i'd love to see a ride that did that reverse launch from a show building into another show building that drop tracked you into another launch for the back to station run or a show buildin that incorporated both the drop into a reverse launch. You go into a cave, come to a stop due to track being blocked and then as you hear a roar and a Bear AA coming, you back back out. Now the train is out of control in a dark segment and it finally comes to a stop and then the bottom drops out and you launch out of the darkness
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: KBCraig on July 30, 2017, 12:10:41 PM
That dark drop launch is cool.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Swoosh on July 30, 2017, 01:09:57 PM
So we all either know of or have rode Firechaser at Dollymounds. Here's another Gerstlauer ride that is much the same. I think they could have done more with the show sections


Now here's a Gerstlauer in Germany. It has a vertical with drop lift. Check out how it stops and drops before going on to the apex
https://youtu.be/rjLt98Q4LMM

Anyway, we know Gerstlauer is getting the trick track thing down pat. The do reverse launches , drop tracks, ect, ect, ect.

We'll after watching that Parc Astrix pov when it comes to that second stop to go back to the station I was thinking it needed more. It needed to be a drop track feature as a last hurrah.

Anyway, I have theorized that SDC needed a coaster that had a dark ride/coaster that either has a drop se ton as part of the queue or ride. Think getting in a mine shaft elevator and then, have some trouble, yikes.

Anyhoo, i'd love to see a ride that did that reverse launch from a show building into another show building that drop tracked you into another launch for the back to station run or a show buildin that incorporated both the drop into a reverse launch. You go into a cave, come to a stop due to track being blocked and then as you hear a roar and a Bear AA coming, you back back out. Now the train is out of control in a dark segment and it finally comes to a stop and then the bottom drops out and you launch out of the darkness

I think this would be a good replacement for FITH.  I've come to terms that the classics are going to have to be replaced.  I'm not happy about it - they are going to have to be replaced because the park didn't take care of them back in the day and now they are paying the price (literally) for the neglect.  SO since they are going to have to be replaced, let's do it right.


=====

Since the park is going to need a new shooter ride with FM probably on its way out.  I would like to see them utilize the Carousel Barn and put in a Tom Sawyer themed dark ride to help tie in with the River Blast theme of the area.  You could board a small "raft" and "float" down the river on a Ghost Hunt and encounter AAs of Tom Sawyer characters.  I think it would be a great family ride and that way when we replace FM we no longer need the whole "shooting" element.

With the new FM I would like something more like Pirates of the Caribbean.  There could be a couple of drops to add a thrill element (with a very minimal "splash" on the front row - much like on POTC).  In fact they could go as far as having the boats drop under the train tracks to another building to make a longer ride.

Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: chittlins on July 30, 2017, 02:32:47 PM
That dark drop launch is cool.

( added the video link of the other coaster above)

Swoosh and I have had some rides on Verbolten at Busch Gardens Williamsburg. It's a solid coaster but that Drop makes it. This hasn't been done much in the US. It would be a unique thing to have and it could fit in soany themes. I still think it is a no brainer for the burning bridge scene in a new FITH and prefer it there.

Also notice how that Parc Astrix coaster crosses the raft ride. I'm a huge proponent of mixing rides together so there can play off of each other I still think a new flume should mix in a coaster where they can share encloses structures to get more "value" out of expensive rock structures.They can even share outside theming. I still think a coaster crossing the 'river" just doWN from a splash drop and a place where it runs along the flume ride.

Inspirations
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/56/bb/09/56bb09061d42d9ee0a3f3c48e289bfdb--covered-bridges-lincoln-new-hampshire.jpg)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/50/e4/3d/50e43dc0fdfc059e6d4018cf911048c9--bryson-city-railroad-bridge.jpg)
(http://c8.alamy.com/comp/EDPMFW/historic-durango-silverton-narrow-gauge-railroad-train-along-the-animas-EDPMFW.jpg)
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: sdcfan88 on August 08, 2017, 11:33:39 PM
While I know everyone is hyped up for the 2018 announcement... What's the story for 2020? Flat ride expansion? Attraction retheme/rebuild? Or will it be the long rumored coaster to be placed between WF and PK?
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Swoosh on August 08, 2017, 11:47:55 PM
While I know everyone is hyped up for the 2018 announcement... What's the story for 2020? Flat ride expansion? Attraction retheme/rebuild? Or will it be the long rumored coaster to be placed between WF and PK?


If I was a betting man, I'd say replacement for FM
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: DollarCityBoy on August 09, 2017, 08:43:12 AM
What ever happened to the idea/plan to rebuild the front entrance?
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: sanddunerider on August 09, 2017, 10:01:22 AM
What ever happened to the idea/plan to rebuild the front entrance?

I am sure That will happen, But I expect it will be a winter remodel thing..  Probably wont even be announced publicly...  LOL.. 

Just 1 of the many small "fix it up" projects..
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: shavethewhales on August 09, 2017, 07:39:06 PM
I really expected the new gate by now. If this coaster really brings in the crowds as it should, it's going to be a cluster. It's already bad enough to warrant some kind of work and has been for a long time now. I don't know what the hold up could be other than them being cheap. Would be a great project for 2019.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: sdcfan88 on August 09, 2017, 08:06:01 PM
I'm thinking they will probably either relocate or suspend the SDC logo over an archway and knock down the rest of the wall behind it and take out the garden planter to open that area up. I would be worried that the water clock would go away too however, I think word got out on the rumor that they were hinting on a complete razing and it got a backlash from a lot of people and thats why the project got put off. Could be wrong though.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Swoosh on August 09, 2017, 08:45:17 PM
Honestly, I think expanding the parking became more pressing.  That and the fact that they have been relocating employee parking to open up closer parking for guests when needed.

Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: shavethewhales on August 09, 2017, 10:28:58 PM
I had completely forgotten that they were expanding the parking lots again. Weren't they just adding a little bit to the back lot though? There isn't exactly room for much more back there - or so I had assumed. Looking at the topography on google maps its hard to see where they could flatten to add any more. Unless they start using more satellite parking...

Perhaps someday all the lots near SDC will be paid, but they'll have satellite parking with shuttles for free (or much cheaper). I'm not sure how else they could convince people to willingly park miles away. It's a huge cluster when people have to do it now, and a lot of people simply leave when they are directed down the road because there's no communication.

I think they should buy Indian Ridge, flatten it out a little more for some parking up front, then put the resort in the back!
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Junior, too! on August 12, 2017, 04:03:30 PM
Too bad they cannot come up with funds to build a three or four deck parking garage on the main lot...which in my daze working there it was called "C" lot. It is the area from the bus/tram loading area on the upper lot going toward the Hospitality House. If they remodel the front area at the turnstyles, I hope they keep the waterclock.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Gilligan on August 12, 2017, 05:43:15 PM
Too bad they cannot come up with funds to build a three or four deck parking garage on the main lot...which in my daze working there it was called "C" lot. It is the area from the bus/tram loading area on the upper lot going toward the Hospitality House. If they remodel the front area at the turnstyles, I hope they keep the waterclock.

So do I, Junior!  I love that clock and the feeling that area conveys with the moving waters, rock, trees, and plants.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Swoosh on August 12, 2017, 11:55:57 PM
Too bad they cannot come up with funds to build a three or four deck parking garage on the main lot...which in my daze working there it was called "C" lot. It is the area from the bus/tram loading area on the upper lot going toward the Hospitality House. If they remodel the front area at the turnstyles, I hope they keep the waterclock.

So do I, Junior!  I love that clock and the feeling that area conveys with the moving waters, rock, trees, and plants.

I would like them to move the waterclock to the square area.  They could put it over by Reunion Hall.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: shavethewhales on August 13, 2017, 02:44:18 PM
I'd like them to keep it there, or even rebuild it with more emphasis. The entrance to the park has lost detail over the years, and there should be more there to tell visitors that they are about to step back in time.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: givemezamor on August 13, 2017, 03:19:19 PM
I'd like them to keep it there, or even rebuild it with more emphasis. The entrance to the park has lost detail over the years, and there should be more there to tell visitors that they are about to step back in time.

I'd love to see pictures of the entrance from over the years.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: Runner1960 on August 13, 2017, 03:30:48 PM
I'd like them to keep it there, or even rebuild it with more emphasis. The entrance to the park has lost detail over the years, and there should be more there to tell visitors that they are about to step back in time.

I'd love to see pictures of the entrance from over the years.

I think my parents have a picture in the mid 60's of us when you drive right up to the square and park. Next Time I'm there I will try to find it.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: History Buff on August 13, 2017, 08:22:34 PM
The water clock is the time machine that gets us from the present to the past.
Title: Re: Future SDC Development Speculation (Long-term)
Post by: givemezamor on August 13, 2017, 09:42:44 PM
I'd like them to keep it there, or even rebuild it with more emphasis. The entrance to the park has lost detail over the years, and there should be more there to tell visitors that they are about to step back in time.

I'd love to see pictures of the entrance from over the years.

I think my parents have a picture in the mid 60's of us when you drive right up to the square and park. Next Time I'm there I will try to find it.

Awesome! I grew up only a few hours from the City, but only discovered it in 2014 while dating my now wife. Safe to say I immediately fell in love with it.