Osama Bin Laden dead!

[Junior]

My local radio station reported today that Osama's "last words" were released by officials today. They were, "Hey, you're NOT the pizza delivery guy!" 

[Zephon]

I have to step up here, Miss Tina, and say that comparing Westboro Baptist to Arab terrorists is a bit of a stretch...in fact it's a huge stretch.  While I may not agree with Westboro's methods, I'm pretty sure that they have not killed a single person, let alone thousands, the most being of their own faith.

And while it may be true that the majority of Muslims are "docile," and terrorists represent only an extreme faction of their religion, the fact is that the religion of Islam is not "peaceful."  Their Koran teaches "kill the infidels."  In fact, it is the extremists who are following their "book" to the letter.
------------------------------------
-Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98
-On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161
-Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - Sura 2:191
-Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39
-Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - Sura 2:216
(different translation:  Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.)
-But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. - Sura 4:89
-O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - Sura 5:54
-Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. - Sura 66:9
-The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. - Sura 98:51
-------------------------------------

That being said, I will grant that Christianity has not been a peaceful religion either.  History is filled with incidents of bloodshed done "in the name of Christianity."  The difference is that these have been things done by people and individuals and are contrary to the New Testament, or Christian, teachings in the Bible.  True, in the Old Testament, God directed the Hebrews to wipeout whole populations, but those were specific cases and limited to that day and age.  New Testament, or Christian, teaching supplants that of the Old in most cases, and is peaceful and loving in nature:  "Love your neighbor as yourself" & "Love your enemy" (Mt. 5:43-44), etc.  God does not hate sinners, as the Koran indicates..."God demonstrated His love toward us in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Rom. 5:8

It may be true that, in practice, a Muslim and a Christian can be friends and respectful to each other.  However, if the Muslim is being true to his faith, he cannot.  "O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people." - Sura 5:54

There are many "major" differences between Christianity and Islam, not just in regards to how they view Christ's deity.  Too many to go into here.  Further, the "true" Muslim will find that his faith prohibits him from being a friend to either Christians or Jews.  A "true" Christian, while being encouraged by his religious teachings to be respectful of the individual Muslim, cannot condone the teachings of Islam, or tolerate them.  The best we, Christians, can do is respect their right to have their beliefs.  And that is something that the teachings of Islam do not even allow to it's adherents...IF one is "truly" following the faith.

[Zephon]

What was ya all doing on 9-11?

I was at home, in bed, watching the Today show...didn't have to work that day.  They abandoned their regular chatter to relate the news of the first plane hitting the tower.  My wife was in the bathroom getting ready for work and I said "Come in here and watch this."  She did and I told her "That was no accident!"  A few minutes later the second plane hit, confirming my earlier assumption.  I could hardly believe my eyes as first one, then the other tower crumbled and fell.  I had the opportunity to visit the Towers when I was in college.  Even today, it's hard to believe they're gone.

[rubedugans]

I am getting a bit nervous about where this is going, and I feel that we are getting away from the goal of our little site and the Random Talk aspect.

We all come from different places, and have different beliefs, and that is what is great about our society. Let us attempt to agree to disagree on a few topics, and have pride in our country/ and faith that things will work out in the end (whatever end you believe in). We have brave men and women fighting for our right to share our thoughts openly and honestly, and I simply do not want to ostracize anyone.

SDCfans is a place for us to share, sometimes rant, and vent about some of our thoughts as a whole, but let us try to not glorify anything that might cause someones beliefs/ attitudes harm.

I know many are simply stating facts, but like life there are a few things I avoid in groups, religion and politics. Those are the things that ALWAYS get heated...
Thanks
rube

[okiebluegrass]

i understand turning the other cheek if someone hits you, but if they are threatening your life or your family I feel you have an obligation to defend yourself and your freedom. I was a soldier who just happened to serve in the 11 years between wars. i am not a pacifist. I did not celebrate the death of uBL, because I know he is one of God's children, but in my heart I'm glad he's no longer a threat to me or my family.

[Zephon]

Don't worry, RD.  I got no beef with Tina, none at all.  And I hope she has none with me.  And I don't believe I said anything that was disrespectful to her, at least I don't think so, and didn't mean to if it sounded that way.  Still, I don't think it's a good idea to form opinions, like seeing no difference between Westboro and terrorists, based on misconceptions/faulty information, like "Islam is a peaceful religion" (I realize that's the way the media tries to paint them though).  Westboro's methods may not be the shining example of "Christian love", but to liken them to killers of innocent people...quite an exaggeration IMO.  But, like Tina, I am in favor of being "tolerant" of other individuals.  In fact, I find it to be a quite necessary trait.  I believe "long-suffering" is how the Bible puts it.  However, more often than not, and especially true in the relationship between Christianity and Islam, "tolerance" is a one-way street.  This is particularly evidenced by the fact that in most Muslim countries, the practice of Christianity is either strictly forbidden or severely repressed.  "Just the facts, ma'am."  Sorry, Tina, if my comments offended. 

That's all.

On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with a good healthy discussion, as long as it's civil, is there?  Maybe we can have a sub-forum called "Heated Talk," eh Rube?  LOL

[Joy]

No beef with you. I understand your point.

The thing is, there are still many Christians today who take everything in the Bible to heart but ignore all the parts that require killing. And there are many Muslims today that do the same with their holy book.

I am friends with more than one Muslim here on campus, and they are some of the most loving, peaceful people I know, far more than many "Christians" I know.

There are bad people in all religions, and there are good, and I just think we shouldn't judge an entire group based solely on the chosen holy book of their religion, because many of them may not believe in following the more violent passages.

I admit I probably shouldn't have used the term "true." And I'd like to forget I did. LOL

As for Westboro... no, no killings. I guess I chose them because they're currently the most vocal minority "representing" Christianity right now, and while they've not killed anyone, they are psychological terrorists who perpetuate hatred that can lead others to violence. There have been those incidents with men fooling people into joining their communes and then "drinking Kool-Aid." It seems "Christian" terrorists are more subtle in their dealings.

This is why I've basically given up on identifying myself with any religion and prefer to call myself "spiritual" rather than "religious." I think the Ten Commandments are good rules to live by, and there are even atheists who agree that they are a good moral code, as well as "Judge not lest ye be judged," "Love your neighbor as yourself," and "Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you."

My feelings are that as long as you live your life helping others rather than harming, you're good to go. And I know many, many Christians AND Muslims of whom that can be said.

I like the idea of a Heated Talk forum. I probably wouldn't take part, 'cause I really do try to just avoid religion and politics when talking to friends because of how easily it can get out of hand and lead to misunderstandings and rifts.

[sanddunerider]

WOW!!    well on another note,  today is almost 70 degrees, no wind, no rain.  beeutiful day..  would be a great day to be at the City!

[Joy]

BTW, Junior: Best Osama joke I've seen so far. LOL

[Junior]

Just a light comment for a quick grin! Thanks!

[Joy]

I've been seeing some funny graphics on Tumblr where Waldo is telling Osama that he still reigns as champion of hide and seek. LOL

There's a funny manip that put Lord Voldemort's face on Osama's picture that says "[expletive] don't know about my horcruxes!"

[thelarsonsix]

Why do we constantly have to have tolerance for everyone else's beliefs when they fly planes into buildings for ours.

Because the people who flew the planes were a vocal minority of a HUGE religion that for the majority is just as docile as the majority of Christianity.

Saying we shouldn't respect the beliefs of a Muslim because of what the terrorists who claim to be representing the Muslim faith do, is like saying we shouldn't respect the beliefs of a Christian because of what the Westboro Baptist Church, who claim to be representing the Christian faith, does.

If a true Christian and a true Muslim were to meet each other, they could easily be the best of friends. The only major difference between modern Islam and modern Christianity is that Islam believes Jesus was just a prophet while Christianity believes he was the son of God. So why is it we can get along just fine with people of the Jewish faith but not those of the Muslim faith?

It is the intolerance of religion that has led to so much strife and war in history. If we were to be more understanding and respectful of people and their beliefs, we wouldn't have so much horror going on.

I know, I'm mostly to blame for it. I will say one last thing for clarification. I wasn't speaking about Muslims in general but the terrorists who believe killing the infidels in the answer. I realize I made no effort to make that distinction in my post and for that I apologize. I just think political correctness and "tolerance" has caused a lot of the problems our country is facing right now. Not religious tolerance, per se, but maybe pacifism would be a better word. I am tired of seeing my rights trampled so some fringe group can have theirs.

I will not comment on the matter further for the same reasons Rube stated in a later post. There are a lot of forums where the three "G's" (God, Guns and Government) are not allowed and it's easy to see why. If I rubbed someone the wrong way, again, I apologize.

[Zephon]

I agree, Tina.  There are good and decent people all around us.  It only takes a few nutcases to give the rest a bad name.   

thelarsonsix, no need to apologize.  Your statement was right on.  It was the policy of appeasement that lead to WW2.

[sanddunerider]

 """"three "G's" (God, Guns and Government) """"

larson, I like that!

[thelarsonsix]

""""three "G's" (God, Guns and Government) """"

larson, I like that!

We're very fortunate to be pretty much "self policing" here and not really having anything (as long as it's clean) off limits. And we seem to do a pretty good job of it. That's another reason I will not go any farther with that topic. I would hate to see someone discouraged from joining because they just happened to read a couple of posts and saw the same old same old arguing and fighting about off topic stuff.