Author Topic: What's going on in NWA, 2020  (Read 24792 times)

chittlins

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Re: What's going on in NWA, Spring 16
« Reply #60 on: August 18, 2016, 03:41:43 PM »
This ties into the post above, gotta figure out a way to get it built. The Texarkana to KC Stretch is the middle of a hour glass that connects Nawlins and Houston to Canada with I -49 and I-69 on bottom and I-35 and I-29 on top:

From a businessman online friend in Fort Smith:

" When I-49 is complete, Fort Smith will explode. It will be at the corner of I-40 and I-49, in the center of the U.S. With access to rail and river, the proximity to major trucking lines (ABF, C. R. England, J. B. Hunt, USA Trucking, Jones Truck Lines etc.) it will be, perhaps, the single largest drop and ship hub (not attached to a sea or ocean) in the country. It will be central most drop point for shipped items arriving in the gulf ports for distribution east, west, and north.

I read a study several months ago that predicted that, after the completion of I-49, the River Valley will be one on the 5 fastest growing areas in the country, with a return of it's strong manufacturing base to take advantage of it's, now enhanced, ability to ship North, South, East, and West.

According to a couple of friends of mine on the FS Board of Directors and the Fort Chaffee Redevelopment Authority, east and south of Fort Smith is being gobbled up in huge chunks by investors in anticipation of the growth that will be facilitated by the completion of I-49. "

HumphreyHawk

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Re: What's going on in NWA, Spring 16
« Reply #61 on: August 18, 2016, 04:11:04 PM »
I didn't realize the river valley was growing that much...It seemed to me to be kind of struggling with the loss of manufacturing jobs like a lot of the rest of the midwest. 

I know the KCK region had similar talks about population explosion due to both I-49 and the proposed I-35 'free trade' corridor that was at one time a thing.  They even build some type of International Trucking 'Port' around the railroad yards that is supposed to be the busiest 'inland port' in the country.

My father-in law has some land near an I-35 exit an hours south of KC....I told him he is on gold mind if the right legislation is passed.  Wish I had some land near the proposed I-49 corridor.  In about 15-20 years I-49 is going to need a 2nd bypass around NWA...probably running north/south from Springdale, XNA, west of Rogers and Bville. 
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chittlins

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Re: What's going on in NWA, Spring 16
« Reply #62 on: August 19, 2016, 07:57:56 AM »
I didn't realize the river valley was growing that much...It seemed to me to be kind of struggling with the loss of manufacturing jobs like a lot of the rest of the midwest. 

I know the KCK region had similar talks about population explosion due to both I-49 and the proposed I-35 'free trade' corridor that was at one time a thing.  They even build some type of International Trucking 'Port' around the railroad yards that is supposed to be the busiest 'inland port' in the country.

My father-in law has some land near an I-35 exit an hours south of KC....I told him he is on gold mind if the right legislation is passed.  Wish I had some land near the proposed I-49 corridor.  In about 15-20 years I-49 is going to need a 2nd bypass around NWA...probably running north/south from Springdale, XNA, west of Rogers and Bville.

Not much is going to happen on the KC end till Arkansas finds ways to get done from Alma to Texarkana. Texas is at least building segments of I-69 and most of I-49 is done in LA with Sheveport being the sticking point.

Arkansas is going to have to explore tolls whether they want to or not, old US 71 would offer a free route but with much less traffic for those that are toll adverse and like 55mph speed limits. I can say the same thing for a Turnpike across North Arkansas from Harrison to Walnut Ridge. These need done yesterday, it benefits the entire state.not a single person tells me they would pay a toll to Texarkana if it meant advice US 69 in Oklahoma to get to Dallas.

HumphreyHawk

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Re: What's going on in NWA, Spring 16
« Reply #63 on: August 26, 2016, 08:38:57 AM »
I bet a toll road would work and actually makes a lot of sense.  Make is 'temporary' (like 20 years) just to pay it off....or at least sell it that way.....or just toll the southern AR section to help pay for the AR/Mo section that is left. 

KC already has 35, 70, 29, 49 and easy access to to 44....it's already a hub...but completing 49 to have more direct route to Houston and the Gulf will ease traffic on 35 and create another major trucking lane.
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Re: What's going on in NWA, Spring 16
« Reply #64 on: August 26, 2016, 03:31:13 PM »
I bet a toll road would work and actually makes a lot of sense.  Make is 'temporary' (like 20 years) just to pay it off....or at least sell it that way.....or just toll the southern AR section to help pay for the AR/Mo section that is left. 

KC already has 35, 70, 29, 49 and easy access to to 44....it's already a hub...but completing 49 to have more direct route to Houston and the Gulf will ease traffic on 35 and create another major trucking lane.

You mean temporary like every toll road ever built in Oklahoma?  Ha!
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Re: What's going on in NWA, Spring 16
« Reply #65 on: August 26, 2016, 03:45:39 PM »
Yeah, about those toll roads... OK is about to pass another 16% increase. They said at the time that it was temporary, but the law actually states that as long as a new toll road is under construction they can keep managing tolls to help pay for it. So guess what they keep doing...

But AR does have some serious road needs. They can't build a Springdale bypass fast enough for me. Being able to speed through there would cut my travel time to the places I want to be by an hour at least.

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Re: What's going on in NWA, Spring 16
« Reply #66 on: August 26, 2016, 05:39:32 PM »
Yeah, about those toll roads... OK is about to pass another 16% increase. They said at the time that it was temporary, but the law actually states that as long as a new toll road is under construction they can keep managing tolls to help pay for it. So guess what they keep doing...

But AR does have some serious road needs. They can't build a Springdale bypass fast enough for me. Being able to speed through there would cut my travel time to the places I want to be by an hour at least.

It should be the first thing OK puts in their travel guide and on their new license plates.  It can be the new state nickname and slogan:  "The Land of Paying to Drive on a Highway that Has Been Reduced to Single Lanes Because if We Fix Them, We'll Have to Stop Charging You to Drive on Them."

Good grief.
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chittlins

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Re: What's going on in NWA, Spring 16
« Reply #67 on: August 26, 2016, 07:23:20 PM »
Yeah, about those toll roads... OK is about to pass another 16% increase. They said at the time that it was temporary, but the law actually states that as long as a new toll road is under construction they can keep managing tolls to help pay for it. So guess what they keep doing...

But AR does have some serious road needs. They can't build a Springdale bypass fast enough for me. Being able to speed through there would cut my travel time to the places I want to be by an hour at least.

I went to Tulsa last last for Coldplay, I have no issues with there rates. 5 bucks r/t or old 412 if i'm cheap, you HAVE a choice. Someone should tell the cars the were 50 deep at 1am in toll plaza that pike passes are a god send. As long as there's a free alternative, I'm all for tolls to get new freeways built. Old 71 south fFt. Smith to Texarkana would be just that and old 412 across North would work for a turnpike across North Arkansas. The leg should put it on a ballot. Northwest Arkansas would overwhelmingly vote for it. If they offered a third land between Memphis and LR with trucks forbidden it would be incredibly popular. They can get by with it because they would us a loophole that allows new bridge construction to be funded by tolls. That would he a new White River  bridge, already designed as a 6 lane facility.. in fact, they are now studing the I-49 bridge over the Arkansas as a toll. Unless they extended it far last Greenwood. I don't see that being successful as the segment thru Chaffee just dead end at Greenwood.

Oh, Fayetteville is gaining a Fairfield Inn and indoor trampoline place

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Re: What's going on in NWA, Spring 16
« Reply #68 on: August 27, 2016, 09:59:54 AM »
Yeah, about those toll roads... OK is about to pass another 16% increase. They said at the time that it was temporary, but the law actually states that as long as a new toll road is under construction they can keep managing tolls to help pay for it. So guess what they keep doing...

But AR does have some serious road needs. They can't build a Springdale bypass fast enough for me. Being able to speed through there would cut my travel time to the places I want to be by an hour at least.

Exactly. Tulsa has at least 4 different interstates including toll roads to get thru town fast and bypass every slow road that has to stop at every light. Springdale, Rogers, and Fayetteville are all different towns linked together, and almost as big as Tulsa together. The people who build roads think we need 1 interstate going North and South along with 2 roads that arent much of highways since you have to stop at every light. They dont think they need anything going East and West to get thru town fast? They think 1 interstate with 4 lanes is enough to handle all the traffic?............. ??? ??? :o......No, that aint gonna cut it. Now they finally realize that they need to widen 49, but thats not enough. 49 turns into a parking lot any time there is a wreck and at 5:00, just like Tulsa's I-44/244 intersection. They need to build more interstates for more choices and decrease traffic. Its like a bottle neck. With all the tourists and locals, they need a way for better traffic flow.  I think there should be 2 interstates going North/South and at least 1 going East/West. 412 aint gonna cut it. Its too slow. 49 is a good interstate on the West side of town, but there should be another on the East side too. 71 is also too slow. Tulsa has a big variety in choices, including interstates. Springdale/Rogers/Fayetteville should too. Im glad there are no tolls on the roads I drive on thru AR and MO. Im fine if they build toll roads, but Id rather they be free and fast. Theres 2 or 3 toll roads near me in OK and I rarely go on them. Thats the 1 thing I like AR and MO about more than OK.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2016, 10:09:27 AM by Laroy »

chittlins

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Re: What's going on in NWA, Spring 16
« Reply #69 on: August 29, 2016, 08:06:18 AM »
Yeah, about those toll roads... OK is about to pass another 16% increase. They said at the time that it was temporary, but the law actually states that as long as a new toll road is under construction they can keep managing tolls to help pay for it. So guess what they keep doing...

But AR does have some serious road needs. They can't build a Springdale bypass fast enough for me. Being able to speed through there would cut my travel time to the places I want to be by an hour at least.

Exactly. Tulsa has at least 4 different interstates including toll roads to get thru town fast and bypass every slow road that has to stop at every light. Springdale, Rogers, and Fayetteville are all different towns linked together, and almost as big as Tulsa together. The people who build roads think we need 1 interstate going North and South along with 2 roads that arent much of highways since you have to stop at every light. They dont think they need anything going East and West to get thru town fast? They think 1 interstate with 4 lanes is enough to handle all the traffic?............. ??? ??? :o......No, that aint gonna cut it. Now they finally realize that they need to widen 49, but thats not enough. 49 turns into a parking lot any time there is a wreck and at 5:00, just like Tulsa's I-44/244 intersection. They need to build more interstates for more choices and decrease traffic. Its like a bottle neck. With all the tourists and locals, they need a way for better traffic flow.  I think there should be 2 interstates going North/South and at least 1 going East/West. 412 aint gonna cut it. Its too slow. 49 is a good interstate on the West side of town, but there should be another on the East side too. 71 is also too slow. Tulsa has a big variety in choices, including interstates. Springdale/Rogers/Fayetteville should too. Im glad there are no tolls on the roads I drive on thru AR and MO. Im fine if they build toll roads, but Id rather they be free and fast. Theres 2 or 3 toll roads near me in OK and I rarely go on them. Thats the 1 thing I like AR and MO about more than OK.

Tulsa only has one real interstate (I-44)with a 3 digit loop (I-244) to compliment it.  It also has upgraded US highways and turnpikes that makes it seem like it has more interstates but there are not interstates.

It is true that NWA is basically a clusters of small cities that make up a greater metro area, it is about 520,000  as of today, half of Tulsa's MSA. But... Projections have it cathing up around 2030 based on current growth patterns. There's two basic comparisons for this region as of today. Memphis is to Oklahoma City as Little Rock is to Tulsa. If you add NWA and the Ft. Smith area together  it's nipping at the latter's heels but not by themselves....yet.

Right now there is a moritorium on new Federal Interstates being built via tolls. Now there is a pilot program which I think OK is part of that allows it. It is only for 6 states. a couple of those are basically squaring on their right to do so with no immediate plans. Arkansas has made it clear it wants one of those slots. The loophole to that is the Bridges. You can place a toll ro replace or build new bridges on the interstate system. The money raised can only go for that and it's upkeep. The fly in the ointment is how far past the actual span that toll zone can be extended and be considered part of that project.

Let's look at two possible examples for Arkansas.

The I-40 White River Bridge. Get ready that's coming soon, well into engineering. It is slated to be six lanes. Why you may ask? Because I-40 between LR and Memphis is a virtual truck stop on a 4 lane road. They clog traffic particularly during the work week, governed 18 wheeler after governed 18 wheeler passing one another clogging car traffic and creating constant slowdowns that lead to countless wrecks and Nascar worthy traffic weaving. The state deaparately wants to six lane it with the third lane being a toll lane and truck free. The study came back saying that wouldn't pay of it but tolling all the lanes would. Arkansas could feasibly extern a third lane 10s of miles on each side of the a new construction White River Bridge. This is especially true on the east side as it wod incorporate smaller spans at the Cache and L'Anguille Rivers (Basically to Forrest City). The west side would be a little harder sell. The cost may be justified as it offering at least half the transit to Memphis at 6 lanes with the ability to fill in the gaps on each end  via traditionql funding.

Now there's the new I-49 Arkansas River Bridge. This would connect I-49/I-40 ar Alma to a new segment of I-49 that cross old parts of Ft. Chaffee they have already built. The AHTD boxed themselves in here. They'll only be able to toll the bridge because there's no need for three lanes on the new section and that prohibits a toll possible funding a lengthening of I-49 southward past Greenwood.

Now, back to US 412. I'm from the  east Arkansas Delta. Mraked Tree to be exact. I did spend my teen years in Memphis. I keep up with stuff over there, My Brother and Mother live in the Memphis area. I-22 is about done thus creating an interstate from upgrade US 78. My desire to see a turnpike across North Arkansas ties into I-22. I want I-22 extended from Memphis thru Arkansas to I-35 west of Tulsa (Stoolwater) and maybe to Pueblo CO. From there. For the Arkansas part, build a turnpike from Harrison to Walnut Ridge where it would intersect an interstate quality US 67 that's been proposed as an extension of I-57, build a southern bypass of JonesBoro to connect the new I-555 portion of US 63 from the I-555 terminus at I-55 at Turrell build a new northern Mississippi River Bridge that would connect to the future I-69/269 at Millington TN and share signage through Memphis to the the complete part of I-22 on the south end. That would give NWA and Tulsa two interstates

Long ramble over


HumphreyHawk

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Re: What's going on in NWA, Spring 16
« Reply #70 on: August 29, 2016, 09:26:30 AM »
Well for NWA....

I still see a future need for a western North/South bypass....I wish the leaders would start marking it out now.  From the BellaVista/Gravette area down through Centerton, West Rogers, by the XNA, maybe connect with Springdale bypass, but continue down around Springdale and West Fayetteville and/or Farmington.  Create a corridor that links it to the HO in Bville and upgrade a few of the East/West roads between the two N/S highways. 

It's really the only place to create another corridor considering the geography.....plus it's where the growth is going.  I-49 is basically the Main St of NWA and it's going to need help even after the lane additions.  Let 71B/94 we the Eastern corridor.

The whole area just has grown too fast for its infrastructure.  Each city seems to have traffic issues due to lack of planning plus the region as only seemed to come together recently and trying to plan it all out.
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Re: What's going on in NWA, Spring 16
« Reply #71 on: August 29, 2016, 02:12:56 PM »
I consider any road in Tulsa that has a speed of 70+ with no lights or stop signs, including toll roads, to be an Interstate. Although, even the smallest wreck could cause traffic. There needs to be more roads like this everywhere. Roads with a speed of up to 65 or down to 30 with lights all the way thru town and a few out in the middle of nowhere, are considered Highways.

Those new roads you talked about sound great.......but how long will it be until they are started? If they start now, I know for sure it wont be until 2026 or later until they are finished. Arkansas is slower at building/upgrading a road than OK or MO. The intersection on 412 at Pilot is even taking a while and its a pretty easy process compared to the new lanes on 412 near Hindsville.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 02:19:37 PM by Laroy »

chittlins

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Re: What's going on in NWA, Spring 16
« Reply #72 on: August 29, 2016, 02:42:50 PM »
I consider any road in Tulsa that has a speed of 70+ with no lights or stop signs, including toll roads, to be an Interstate. Although, even the smallest wreck could cause traffic. There needs to be more roads like this everywhere. Roads with a speed of up to 65 or down to 30 with lights all the way thru town and a few out in the middle of nowhere, are considered Highways.

Those new roads you talked about sound great.......but how long will it be until they are started? If they start now, I know for sure it wont be until 2026 or later until they are finished. Arkansas is slower at building/upgrading a road than OK or MO. The intersection on 412 at Pilot is even taking a while and its a pretty easy process compared to the new lanes on 412 near Hindsville.

You can consider them whatever you like, will not be right, but go ahead. Unless it is designated as an interstate by the Federales, it isn't.  It's is an important designation, mainly for marketing purposes, but important.

chittlins

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Re: What's going on in NWA, Spring 16
« Reply #73 on: August 29, 2016, 03:44:13 PM »
Well for NWA....

I still see a future need for a western North/South bypass....I wish the leaders would start marking it out now.  From the BellaVista/Gravette area down through Centerton, West Rogers, by the XNA, maybe connect with Springdale bypass, but continue down around Springdale and West Fayetteville and/or Farmington.  Create a corridor that links it to the HO in Bville and upgrade a few of the East/West roads between the two N/S highways. 

It's really the only place to create another corridor considering the geography.....plus it's where the growth is going.  I-49 is basically the Main St of NWA and it's going to need help even after the lane additions.  Let 71B/94 we the Eastern corridor.

The whole area just has grown too fast for its infrastructure.  Each city seems to have traffic issues due to lack of planning plus the region as only seemed to come together recently and trying to plan it all out.

I could see an extension/spur of the west terminus of the 412 bypass west of Tontitown down to between PG and Farmington.

That was studied once, route chosen and pretty much considered a pipe dream and forgotten. What you'll get is a 5 lane of 112. Almost everyone thinks it should have been 8 laned. I bet you'll see it inplaces after they complete rebuild of the I-49/112 interchange in Fayetteville.

You absolutely pegged that it's growing too fast but they ate still building for now and not tommorrow. Crossover in Fayetteville should have been six laned

chittlins

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Re: What's going on in NWA, Spring 16
« Reply #74 on: September 02, 2016, 04:21:24 PM »
Ft. Smith/Fayetteville media market has cracked the top 100 at #99 according to the last Nielson ratings.