Author Topic: SDC Classics Revitalization  (Read 6390 times)

BackInTime9

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SDC Classics Revitalization
« on: August 19, 2014, 08:55:49 PM »
[ADMIN EDIT: I've Split this topic off from the main future projects discussion since it follows a specific tangent - Shave]

It's been hashed and re-hashed a thousand times on this site. Does anyone even remotely close to being "in-the-know" have any reason to believe that the PTB see any value in taking a year to re-invest in updating and improving any of SDC's classic attractions. I think the majority of those who frequent this forum would be in favor of seeing AP, FITH and FM receive some legitimate love in terms of updating and theming to really bring these back to life. Just wonder how realistic it is that this will ever happen, versus simply leaving them be and keeping them up with routine maintenance, or allowing them to run their course until they fall victim to "progress" like so may other beloved SDC attractions.

Just wondering if anyone has any real insight on this subject.  
« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 08:28:25 AM by shavethewhales »

Swoosh

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« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2014, 09:26:40 PM »
I think after the "experiment" that Ouimet did with allocating funds to redo the classic rides at KBF and the larger ROI that those two refreshed attractions produced, the PTB have taken notice. 

They're going to have to do something soon with FITH.  The amount of work it needs is way past cosmetic. 
SWOOSH

Hollwood

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« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2014, 09:36:09 PM »
The reality comes down to three little words... Return On Investment. If the company thinks the money invested will turn a profit, then it is seriously considered. Is their money in refurbishing old attractions? Parks like knotts berry farms thought so with their flume ride and mine train. More parks are leaning toward giving old attractions new life like with the RMC makeovers. Do I personally believe there is money for SDC's old attractions? No. I believe we will see AP taken out first, followed by FM then eventually FITH. The phenomenon you are seeing is called divestment in the business world. Get everything you can out of an asset, without spending money on it, and then scrap it. As soon as AP needs a channel or lift hill rehab, it will be deemed a wate of money. When FM channel leaks (like Dollywood's) then they will not repair it. And when FITH's building no longer meets code because every piece of support beam has rotted due to the trains dripping water all over them, it too will be closed.

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« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2014, 10:10:46 PM »
I would be absolutely heartbroken if FITH is ever taken out. That was my first "big" ride. Oh man, that would be rough on me and a lot of us.

American Plunge on the other hand, I could live with it being replaced with a bigger and better log flume type attraction. It's already a shell of its former self, so recreating it or renovating it into something better would be fine with me. I realize it's a long shot from happening, but I will continue to dream. I want SDC to be how it was when I was growing up. They didn't cut corners back then, why should this be acceptable now?
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shavethewhales

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« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2014, 10:18:15 PM »
Odd that you say 2015 will be a low cap year Swoosh. I know there are some recycled pieces, but are they not spending $8 million at the end of the day? That's at least a medium capital year, bordering on "large" classification as far as I've seen. I just speculating based on patterns here, but you have to go back to 2007 for the last time they spent big two years in a row on capital improvements (correct me if I'm wrong).

They're going to have to do something soon with FITH.  The amount of work it needs is way past cosmetic.  

This is also something I've been thinking about for awhile now. There are some inescapable engineering issues to overcome with FITH that will have to be addressed at some point in one way or another. I knew when Blazing Fury was messed with that the days were being numbered. All you have to do is start letting them get a little shabby, maybe take away a couple of the things that made them special, then people forget why they were so magical and nostalgic and eventually look forward to their replacement. Plus, in any case, a bumpy ride has no fans - just a fact of life in this industry.
Now someone with a heart for what makes SDC special would look to retrofit/expand/rebuild the attraction to capture what made it special utilizing newly available technology, but a soulless corporate entity would demolish it to the pad, build a cheap new shell, fill it with gimmicks (guns and targets anyone), re-do the theme to be PC (no more baldknobbers), and put a little statue in front to honor whatever service people they're onto now in a heartless attempt to make the whole thing seem more special than it is. I don't want to rag too much on SDC's leadership, I've lauded them a lot recently for how they handled FL, but I'm pessimistic that they can mess with FITH and still maintain the Ozarkan spirit that made it come alive. I mean, I'm still pissed they took out Hobo Junction.  

Hollywood, I agree with your basic premise about ROI, but realize that this site probably wouldn't exist without the allure of SDC's classic attractions, and the classic custom SDC rides are very much a part of that. Most of what's being built now is making the place into an upper class theme park, but I have always argued that the really creative and custom stuff like FITH and FM made the place better than any other theme park. I know I'm not the only one who's had this sentiment, and deep down I know a lot of SDC's patrons feel it too if you read into their comments a little. There's got to be a lot of money to be made in the classics, because they have all the elements that turned SDC from a roadside attraction to what it is today. On the other hand, there's a whole chain of parks that took the pure ROI approach: Six Flags, and they've just come out of bankruptcy and are headed straight back.

t-n-t

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« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2014, 10:33:08 AM »
I wish they would bring back For the Glory as well, it was a great show with a great cast.  As a Civil War nut, I enjoyed hearing about a LOCAL battles' effect on the LOCAL area.  There's too much out East information but not much for around here so it was great to see them highlight that.  Great show.

runner1960

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« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2014, 11:27:44 AM »
Since as Swoosh pointed out this is a low investment year maybe a major new attraction is in the works. Personally I would like to see another new coaster. I know a lot of people want a wing rider, but for me just a straight out old fashioned woodie, but we know that is not going to happen.
As for some of the other concerns about classic attractions. SDC has probably let some of these things go to the point that it is not feesable to rehab or improve upon. This is sad. parks operate in this manner. Disney dropped Mr. Toad for Pooh. Snow Whites scary adventures was shuttered when the refurbishment of Fantasyland was announced. Dumbo was totally rebuilt. I am not one who sits on nostalgia so maybe the best bet is to remember them and hopefully when they are replaced it is done with something awesome. Which brings me to why I am dissapointed in FL. The concept is great and it looks like a lot of thought went into it, but if SDC is just going to become a park with traveling carnival style attractions then they have lost me. Most of the things that were announced could be packed up on a truck and moved from town to town. Hopefully the theming and interactive features will offset this.

So what I really hope is that whatever we get is well thought out and highly themed. They can do this because they have in the past. Coaster, New dark ride, I do not care just blow me away with it.

As for shows, I really do not care if they bring back anything from the past. I have seen them and ready to move on to something new. Give me a new high production show and I will be happy.

chittlins

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« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2014, 01:42:29 PM »
Since as Swoosh pointed out this is a low investment year maybe a major new attraction is in the works. Personally I would like to see another new coaster. I know a lot of people want a wing rider, but for me just a straight out old fashioned woodie, but we know that is not going to happen.
As for some of the other concerns about classic attractions. SDC has probably let some of these things go to the point that it is not feesable to rehab or improve upon. This is sad. parks operate in this manner. Disney dropped Mr. Toad for Pooh. Snow Whites scary adventures was shuttered when the refurbishment of Fantasyland was announced. Dumbo was totally rebuilt. I am not one who sits on nostalgia so maybe the best bet is to remember them and hopefully when they are replaced it is done with something awesome. Which brings me to why I am dissapointed in FL. The concept is great and it looks like a lot of thought went into it, but if SDC is just going to become a park with traveling carnival style attractions then they have lost me. Most of the things that were announced could be packed up on a truck and moved from town to town. Hopefully the theming and interactive features will offset this.

So what I really hope is that whatever we get is well thought out and highly themed. They can do this because they have in the past. Coaster, New dark ride, I do not care just blow me away with it.

As for shows, I really do not care if they bring back anything from the past. I have seen them and ready to move on to something new. Give me a new high production show and I will be happy.

Yeah, well, I lament the loss of 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea but I'm sure the kids will love the new Snow White coaster in Feb.

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« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2014, 05:21:01 PM »
My problem with some of this thinking is this:

Fire in the Hole IS the theme of SDC.  Its story is the foundation upon which the rest of the park was built.  Forget that it came years later.  Its story is central and cannot be lost without losing the theme of it all.  Though we miss the diving bell, it was a made up tale - an eccentric idea to begin with, but not a pivotal part of the park.  None of the other attractions, shows, shows, or characters is built upon the major premise of Silver Dollar City.  Lose it, and you have lost the battle for any real theming for the future.  If you believe, as I do, that FL and GE are just window dressing, disguising modern rides, then the only thing that holds it all together is Fire in the Hole.  Lose it, and any future additions will easily slip away from real theming and into this whole idea that any off-the-shelf ride can be stuck in there as long as it has an old-timey name.  I can certainly appreciate the efforts that have been taken to stay close to the theme with newer additions, but that effort will have been in vain if FitH is ever scrapped.  I don't care if FitH has to be completely gutted and rebuilt with more modern technology, if that's what it takes then it must happen for the sake of the INTEGRITY of Silver Dollar City. 
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Injun Joe

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« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2014, 05:35:41 PM »
American Plunge, FITH, and FM(TGS) are basically the holy trinity with GM being another integral piece of the puzzle.  I'm  pretty much against anything other than complete from the bottom up restorations of these historic attractions with the exception of GM which I understand may face unique hurdles due to regulatory issues.  The character (and if possible, the location) of it is what needs to be saved in toto.

That said, unless they demolish the entire front half of the park, I'll still be there.


chittlins

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« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2014, 05:56:11 PM »
As I have said many times and once again doing, I love the storyline of FITH and never wish to see it changed but the ride system, prop tech and dark finale can be completely redone in my book. It's a perfect match for a floor drop coaster when you reach the bridge and it would collapse, allowing the train to drop straight down into a dark launch finale with  a couple of bursts of airtime and the classic light and FIRE IN THE HOLE on the last drop. Seems I ride it as often at OTC and don't really miss the water but would still love a water effect at the end.

I'd  just as soon see a new flume like that I posted from Europe with backwards sections. The only thing I'd miss from the current ride is the whirlpool scene which has been grossly neglected. Again, I'd love to see a bobsled type coaster that shared much the same footprint that intermingled with the flume including the chance splash as it crosses one of the splash zones and shared the same prop theming. Maybe a flume with side by side seating for increase capacity cause that sucker can back up.

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« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2014, 06:08:40 PM »
My point is that even FM, GM, and AP are not integral to the storyline of SDC.  Marmaros is.  I don't want any of that "holy trinity" to leave, but with FitH IS the story, while the others only contribute to it.

With the direction of this conversation, perhaps we were not quite ready for this thread, Shave.
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Hollwood

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« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2014, 09:15:15 PM »
It's been hashed and re-hashed a thousand times on this site. Does anyone even remotely close to being "in-the-know" have any reason to believe that the PTB see any value in taking a year to re-invest in updating and improving any of SDC's classic attractions. I think the majority of those who frequent this forum would be in favor of seeing AP, FITH and FM receive some legitimate love in terms of updating and theming to really bring these back to life. Just wonder how realistic it is that this will ever happen, versus simply leaving them be and keeping them up with routine maintenance, or allowing them to run their course until they fall victim to "progress" like so may other beloved SDC attractions.

Just wondering if anyone has any real insight on this subject. 

A serious question was asked, so a serious answer was given.

Injun Joe

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« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2014, 03:51:03 AM »
My point is that even FM, GM, and AP are not integral to the storyline of SDC.  Marmaros is.  I don't want any of that "holy trinity" to leave, but with FitH IS the story, while the others only contribute to it.

With the direction of this conversation, perhaps we were not quite ready for this thread, Shave.

I understand that FitH has the most exciting story and that it is based in actual history, but I'm a little bit confused as to how it "IS" the story.  Is Silver Dollar City itself supposed to be the town that grew out of the ashes of Marmaros?  Or is it a representation of Marmaros had the cave been full of more bat s#`+ and maybe some real marble or silver to boot?  OK maybe I do see your point, but I still wouldn't mess with these 3+1.  Leave well enough alone, I say. There's plenty of room to expand.  As to the original question, it seems like my best bet would be a FE clone or a year off (say less than 3 or 4m), but that's just my outsider's read.

clancomyn

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« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2014, 07:25:54 AM »
My point is that even FM, GM, and AP are not integral to the storyline of SDC.  Marmaros is.  I don't want any of that "holy trinity" to leave, but with FitH IS the story, while the others only contribute to it.

With the direction of this conversation, perhaps we were not quite ready for this thread, Shave.

I understand that FitH has the most exciting story and that it is based in actual history, but I'm a little bit confused as to how it "IS" the story.  Is Silver Dollar City itself supposed to be the town that grew out of the ashes of Marmaros?  Or is it a representation of Marmaros had the cave been full of more bat s#`+ and maybe some real marble or silver to boot?  OK maybe I do see your point, but I still wouldn't mess with these 3+1.  Leave well enough alone, I say. There's plenty of room to expand.  As to the original question, it seems like my best bet would be a FE clone or a year off (say less than 3 or 4m), but that's just my outsider's read.


A very good question; To my knowledge, the Taney County Bald Knobbers were never associated with the cave, and they were never known to wear the iconic masks as depicted on the ride. In general, the Taney County group's reputation was not as besmirched as the Christian County organization. I'm not aware of a Stone County Chapter, but vigilante groups were common in SW MO; Greene County had a group known as "The Regulators" immediately after the Civil War, but it was relatively short-lived.