So I've been hearing more and more grumbling about the Trailblazer passes that were first introduced last year. Has the program been expanded? I'm sure with all the big lines during Spring Break they've sold more than usual, but is it having an effect on the attitude of the park? I've always been cautiously pessimistic about the passes - I mean, this isn't a Six Flags or Cedar Fair park where you pay a fairly low price to get in and have a multitude of rides. We're talking about 5 major rides here with people already paying $50 to get in. I had hoped they were going to evolve the system into something that works with the guests better, rather than keeping it as a side-system for those with extra cash to throw around.
Dollywood has successfully implemented low-cost Q-bots (http://dollywood.com/dollywood-q10061-c10013-Q2Q_.aspx). These are $15, as opposed to the $50+ ones you see at some of the other big chain parks, and they work well with DW's expanded line-up of big attractions. While I don't like the idea of a pay to skip lines scheme for SDC, this would be a lot better.
The perfect solution, of course, would be to do something like Disney World's system where each guest can schedule their rides for the day free of charge. That system might be copyrighted though, plus, who'd want to give up all that money?
Of my 3 visits, this year, the guests in line were grumbling about them, mostly because 1) they always want the front seat, making that line longer & 2) they get off and run around to ride again! I waited 1hr & 20 min for my first ride of the year on PK, 55 min the 2nd day, and 45 min the 3rd. My suggestion is this: Plan a 2-day trip, pay the $20 and ride the rides all you can one day, then come back the next day to do only shows...
^Sounds like a good idea to me. I think I've only gone to SDC on a 1 day trip once since I started going. It's just impossible to try to do everything in a day, then at the end of the day you're so exhausted... I like to take my time and ride some rides, see some shows, have a leisurely lunch, and just soak up the atmosphere.
Quote from: shavethewhales on March 28, 2010, 10:47:46 PM
The perfect solution, of course, would be to do away with it all together since it is not needed if the ride is properly staffed and efficient
FIXED.
Quote from: Swoosh on March 28, 2010, 11:22:01 PM
Quote from: shavethewhales on March 28, 2010, 10:47:46 PM
The perfect solution, of course, would be to do away with it all together since it is not needed if the ride is properly staffed and efficient
FIXED.
Ditto.
Lines aren't a problem for me, since I'm not into rides or shows. Even when there are lines, there is so much to absorb that every few steps give you new theming to read, new signs, a new view, whatever.
Amen to properly staffed.
THey are getting really lax with the ride efficiancys.
PK has 2 cars although more often than not they are running only 1. I think that WF actually has 3 but even 2 would really help out.
THe worst offences are PK and the swing, only 1 car for these is a really lax move on the parks behalf.
Now they say that if the cars are not full they stall the system adn it has to be rebooted, funny thing though I have seen all rides running empty or just lightly filled as on infrequent slow days.
Waiting a few min is not a big deal but 45 is a killer when that could be cut in half.
Yeah, but the longer the lines, and the less efficient each ride is equals more possible Trailblazer passes sold!
Okay, perhaps Silver Dollar City is more creditable than that, but it sure gives the appearance of it.
Quote from: mhguy77 on March 29, 2010, 08:31:25 AM
Now they say that if the cars are not full they stall the system adn it has to be rebooted, funny thing though I have seen all rides running empty or just lightly filled as on infrequent slow days.
I do not believe that at all since they test run the rides every morning before opening with empty cars.
They just need to have adequate staff on hand and increase capacity as attendence increases. I understand having low staffing based upon projections- but you must be able to gear up in a hurry if attendence exceedes projections or the memories will be of long lines and not fun family time.
While admitting this may earn me the scorn of many, I have to confess that I used a Trailblazer pass last summer with my brother and sister...and I hated it. I hated all the nasty looks from everyone who has waited in line (and I honestly felt like I deserved the nasty looks). All it took was one day of using that thing for me to never want to use one again.
Plus--and this might by really corny--but I feel like you miss the camaraderie of investing time in a line with others who aren't just there to ride a ride but be connected to a unique and memorable place. No more TB passes for me.
Quote from: mhguy77 on March 29, 2010, 08:31:25 AM
Amen to properly staffed.
THey are getting really lax with the ride efficiancys.
PK has 2 cars although more often than not they are running only 1. I think that WF actually has 3 but even 2 would really help out.
THe worst offences are PK and the swing, only 1 car for these is a really lax move on the parks behalf.
Now they say that if the cars are not full they stall the system adn it has to be rebooted, funny thing though I have seen all rides running empty or just lightly filled as on infrequent slow days.
Waiting a few min is not a big deal but 45 is a killer when that could be cut in half.
PK has 3 and WF has2
I don't need a Trailblazer Pass, we hardly ride rollercoasters, but if we spend time in ridiculously long lines for the Happy Frogs again this year because they only staff one operator for two rides, they will hear from us. Seriously it makes me mad!
Other than that, trailblaze away! Makes me no difference.
And the Disney Fast Pass is the greatest thing ever, but it doesn't seem like there are enough rides for it at SDC. Unless they are going to use it for rides and shows.
I work for a very large corporation, where the CEO's and other higher ups work out of a headquarters in a different state. They look at the number of people coming through our local outlet, and the amount of money that comes into it. That's about it. So if their numbers are not looking good to them, they cut back staff, close portions of our building, shut down services, and ride our butts about how we need to be collecting more money. So, when I hear about staff shortages at SDC, some services or shops being cut back or closed, it's the same thing I have to deal with in my job now. I understand. I don't like it, but I get it. I guess I'm not realistic, but I still say the company headquarters ought to be in Branson at SDC. Paying attention to detail to the overall guest experience is still something that the company excells in, but in some respects it does not sound like it is as good as it used to be 20 years or more ago.
I do not mind if the head cheese is another state. However the person who actually makes all of the decisions should be there at the park. The show "Undercover Boss" is a great example of how many CEO's are completely out of touch with their local markets, and yet they make all of the decisions for them.
QuoteEven when there are lines, there is so much to absorb that every few steps give you new theming to read, new signs, a new view, whatever.
Nice, I like your thinking!
I think if people want to spend the money on the TB pass, more power to them. Although in my opinion, I really don't think something like this is needed at SDC. There's only a few rides you'd need them on, and as you guys said, there's always theme stuff to read. I saw the TB pass used for the first time on Wildfire on Sunday. It was handled in a very smooth and fast manner and not very many people even noticed it happened I don't think.
(And by the way, the regular queue time wait for WF was a grand total of 5-10 minutes, depending on the row you wanted to sit in).
Now I have to gripe about something. The staff at the Grand Expo was PATHETIC on Sunday. They were SOOOOOO slow. We rode the swings and I was sitting in the swing for five minutes while they switched out staff members for a break while they chatted. Sat there for five minutes, all for a 30 second ride. I know we've all said this before, but someone needs to look at the efficiency of the Grand Expo staff. It's like you walk into a new park over there.
Couldn't agree more.
Yup, Grand exposition has always been a difficult one for us as well. Waiting for an operator to move between rides is a pain. Sign me up on the spot and I'll be glad to man a ride just to get the lines moving consistently.
(It's always been a dream of mine to work at the park, so killing two birds with one stone!)
Perhaps the Grand Exposition will not be as bad once the college kids start work for the summer? I know that does not help much from March through May, and August through December. :P
I can see why SDC would want to make more money off the people that are willing to pay not to wait but it does seem pretty unfair to everyone waiting in line. It helps to soothe my feelings a little knowing that they paid a lot extra but it creates almost a class system where I am not as important as someone else. It's really hard when you try to explain to a young child why someone else is getting to cut in line. I agree that the way to do it was like the Disney fastpass system where everyone is on equal terms and that people that don't want to wait (or just have better time management skills) don't have to. I can also agree that PK's lines are horrible, but wildfire eats up people with somewhere around 40 per train--I wish more of the SDC rides could handle that kind of load.
We were at the park Thursday for opening day. The weather was perfect and parking was quick and easy.
The crowd was fairly large, and as I expected most of the rides were not operating a full capacity.
Powder Keg had only two of three trains running and the line at mid day stretched almost all the way to the saloon. Wait time was about an hour and a half.
Giant Swing had only one arm operating with the line well out into the courtyard. Wait time was over an hour.
TNT had only one train running with the line out the building and up the ramps. Wait time was over an hour.
Wildfire had both trains running with wait time 10 minutes or less. (This is how it should be done!)
We skipped Fire In the Hole as the line was out past the cemetary.
The line for the new ride was less than 5 minutes. Looks like it will be fun mid-summer.
We never made it to Grand Expo.
I asked some ride operators why they weren't running at full capacity and received two responses:
1. We didn't know it would be this busy.
2. We want to sell more Trailblazer passes.
I'm not buying #1. The temp was in the mid 60s and had been predicted for over 10 days. It's spring break at every school within a couple hundred miles. Their planners need to be replaced if they can't predict a big crowd for these circumstances.
#2 is the real issue. It's almost as if they were creating artifically long lines in order to shame us into purchasing the Trailblazer. If you're not familiar, this is a pass that gives you front of the line access for six rides per day at $20. For a family of 5, that would cost us a hundred extra bucks or about $16.50 per ride. Not worth it in my opinion.
What do you think?
SF StL does that in a way. from the SF web site:
"The Flash Pass allows you to enjoy your day at Six Flags by avoiding long lines at your favorite rides. With a Regular The Flash Pass, you wait as long as everyone else is waiting, but not in line—you can enjoy your free time elsewhere in the park."
With a Gold The Flash Pass, you enjoy a significant reduction in wait time allowing you to ride more rides with less wait.
New for 2010! Platinum The Flash Pass allows you to enjoy riding our rides with the least amount of waiting! Consecutive Riding allows you to WAIT ONCE and RIDE TWICE. Quantities are limited."
"Prices for The Flash Pass vary, depending on level of service and number of riders.
Regular
The Flash Passes are priced from $37.00 for the first person.
Gold
The Flash Passes are priced from $82.00 for the first person
Platinum
The Flash Passes are priced from $102.00 for the first person. Up to 5 extra riders, can be added to your The Flash Pass for an additional charge."
I would not enjoy the 2 time ride option if I had been in line waiting.... >:( No matter how much they paid. I paid to enter as well isn't my $$$ good enough? I go 2 times a year to SF StL on field trips, and this option, when you have a whole class of students, is not fair to them. We understand it is about $$. Try explaingin that to kids as mJenkins stated.
I would seriously doubt if SDC is artificially creating long lines in order to sell these special passes. If they are, somebody higher up deserves a hard, swift kick right up the... Seems like this pass just hacks off a lot of the "loyal and royal" fans.
If they're only selling 75-100 per day, then it really is just an option for those few who have apparently been begging the park for something like this. I'm just worried about the potential for it to take off like at other parks. It's simply bad hospitality to allow some guests to step all over other guests because they can pay more. These kind of schemes are one of the reasons why the American public is becoming less interested in theme and amusement parks, IMO.
Junior is correct. Granted, Silver Dollar City COULD be more efficient. However, I doubt they are intentionally creating long lines. I can remember years ago when Thunderation was the only large coaster in the city. Wow, talk about a LONG line! :o
True Silver Dollar City has more attractions now than they did then, but attendance has gone way up since then as well. Besides think about it this way, if everyone purchased a Trailblazer pass then at least the regular lines would be much shorter. ;)
Quote from: Ozark BBQ on March 31, 2010, 12:51:57 PM
Junior is correct. Granted, Silver Dollar City COULD be more efficient. However, I doubt they are intentionally creating long lines.
I would believe you both, except for the fact that more than one ride operator told me "we're only running one train in order to sell more Trailblazer passes".
That sounds pretty intentional to me.
It sounds like a stupid employee to me. I know theme has shifted since I've worked there, but if the ride operator is talking like that, sounds like his immediate manager needs to have a little talk with him. The only thing the ride operator needs to be talking about is how much fun everybody's having here today in the 1880's.
^ ;D
Quote from: Junior on April 01, 2010, 07:02:25 AM
It sounds like a stupid employee to me.
Stupid because:
a) They are telling guest the truth and they shouldn't be doing that; or
b) They are making stuff up.
I'm going with "a".
if they added a ride or made capitol improvements every year, i could understand the need for additonal revenue streams, but we went over 2 years with just a parking lot and they wanted some to pay more to expierence the same attractions.
I would not call the employees Stupid. I would say they are making a judgement about the situation. First of all if it were the case about them making the lines longer on purpose to sell the Trailblazer they would not tell a ride opp that. They still are only selling a set amount of the passes on a first come first serve basis. Second they would not do this anyway because they would not want to make the masses angry and not want them to come back. I talked to MGMT on park opening weekend and they said they were a little short handed because of the student workers not there yet, but mostly the lines were long because they were training new employees. The new employees have to be trained with guests on park then certified to run the rides. So they had most of the employees they needed but they were not yet trained to run the rides by themselves. If you went back this weekend I bet you would find smaller lines.
Hopefully after all of the schools finish up with Spring Break the lines will die down a bit until this summer, and by then Silver Dollar City should be fully staffed.
My speculation is that the ride operators are as much in the dark about this situation as we are. The ride operators are just there to operate the rides. I would assume that they do not make the decision of how many rollercoaster cars to operate each day. I would bet that management along with maintenance makes that determination.
The ride operators probably speculate about the reasoning behind the Trailblazer Pass just as much as we do.
Quoteshort handed because of the student workers not there yet, but mostly the lines were long because they were training new employees. The new employees have to be trained with guests on park then certified to run the rides.
This is true. You also have to take into consideration the amount of things closed, shops and theatres that haven't opened yet. Trains that haven't finished their winter maintenance, the winter season keeps getting shorter. Also the more trains and boats you have the bigger your chances are for down-time, if the train/boats get to close to each other because people are taking too long to load the ride or for some other reason the ride shuts down. PK with three trains more than likely will shut down frequently.
I like Disney's system too, but you have to realize how much it costs, I would say any chance for a new ride would have to be sacrificed for several years.
I want to know what rides told you that the long lines were supposed to boost Trailblazer sales. I know for a FACT that this isn't true; SDC does not operate like that. This should be dealt with.
TNT, Giant Swing and PowderKeg were all running below capacity on opening day. The line for the Swing, with only one arm operating, was the longest that I have ever seen it.
During Spring Family Days, virtually all of the shows and many of the shops are closed. There's really not much more to do than eat and ride. I happen to like to visit with the workers as I wait to ride. Since all of the line except for Wildfire were moving very slow, I had a lot of chances throughout the day to talk to the ops, both the ones that appeared to be in charge as well as the ones that seemed to be new at it.
They could have told me that the other train was busted, the other Swing Arm was not ready for operation, that they were understaffed or training new employees, etc. etc. etc. But they didn't tell me those things. They told me they were trying to sell more Trailblazers.
Sorry, but I'm more inclined to believe the opinion of several people that I talked to in person over a group on a message board. The regulars on this forum seem to be very well informed, but they may or may not have been present in the parks at the time.
^You can believe what you want. But it is NOT good business sense to tell guests on park that rides are purposefully understaffed to sell the upcharge Trailblazer Passes. Copper works at the park and has for several years. He knows what he's talking about. SDC would not tell ride ops that for the specific reason that it could very well get back to the guests. I also don't think SDC would institute a policy like that in the first place.
My guess is that the ride ops told you that to have some fun with you. I'm also inclined to believe that they didn't tell you that at all and you're just trying to stir things up on the forums. Especially since you've backed away from the fact that ride ops also told you they didn't know it would be so busy (you mentioned that reason in your first post, but failed to mention in your latest post). There have been other legitimate reasons for rides not running at full capacity. It's just irresponsible to ignore those and insist that the reason is to sell more Trailblazer Passes. ::)
No, not trying to stir things up, just sharing some stuff that I was told. I didn't dwell on the crowd projection aspect as this thread is about the Trailblazer pass option.
I take the family to the City several times a year and will be back in a few weeks. We'll see how things are going then. The lines for the rides do tend to die down as more of the shows and shops open for the season.
^I hope I didn't offend you. I was a little irritated when I posted that. Normally I'm on a pretty even keel. :)
Hopefully things will be better when you visit in a few weeks. My wife and I will be visiting in early May.
As for the Trailblazer Pass, I don't have much of a problem with it as long as they keep the numbers they hand out each day to 75-100. If they make the numbers unlimited then there might be a problem.
Thank you all for keeping a civil conversation going. I never saw a TB being used last year. Except for a sign at FitH and postings here, I wouldn't have even known it existed. I'm not even sure where I would go to use one.
As for training new employees, why not just have the first day open be Season Pass Appreciation Day (SPAD) and let us help train the citizens?
I agree that this is a new 2 tier system.
According to the pigs in the Orwell novel Animal Farm " all animals were equal, but some animals are more equal"
There is a lot of truth to that in this situation.
We started with the show pass now its the Trailblazer.
The lack of effenciancy is nothing short of intentional, there are no moves being made to improve the situation by the management.
All debate aside ponder this, and pose this question to a manager.
If Silver Dollar City were to go on the old pay per ride system would they find a way to increase the riders per hour?
We all know the answer to this.
Therefore it is my strong contention that this is purposeful and intentionally created.
Thoughts?
Quote from: mhguy77 on April 01, 2010, 09:33:19 PM
The lack of effenciancy is nothing short of intentional, there are no moves being made to improve the situation by the management.
How do you know this? In a few weeks they'll be back up to normal capacity, I'm positive. The fact is that Branson doesn't exactly have a huge workforce available to come into the park during this time. And again, I've found that the limits are still in place, so they aren't exactly going to create big lines intentionally to sell an extra 20 passes. It's still very much in their best interests to be as efficient as possible so more people will come back.
Quote from: History Buff on April 01, 2010, 06:35:06 PM
Thank you all for keeping a civil conversation going. I never saw a TB being used last year. Except for a sign at FitH and postings here, I wouldn't have even known it existed. I'm not even sure where I would go to use one.
As for training new employees, why not just have the first day open be Season Pass Appreciation Day (SPAD) and let us help train the citizens?
Love that idea!! And while I have seen things around the city to suggest that it is becoming more about the money, I know that SDC does not operate that way. That just sounds like some dumb college kid.
I seriously think the long lines are due to great weather and very few shows & shops being open.
At Disney parks, the best time to ride is when the crowd is drawn to a parade. At SDC, the shows/shops relieve the lines. No shows/no shops = longer ride lines. Period.
Despite adding additional days to the operating year, SDC remains a seasonal park, and probably always will.
Instead of griping about wait times in the very early season, just think about if there was no early season. Traditionally, SDC (like most parks not in Florida or SoCal) operated full time only from mid May to early September, and wasn't open at all outside that time frame, except for some weekends in the early summer.
Missouri, even at the southern edge, is hardly in the temperate climate zone. There's no way to operate the full park year-'round. The workforce and the guest traffic simply won't support it. The fact that the park is open at all between Labor Day and May 1 is just a bonus.
I have a history with this park as a guest and as an employee since 1970. I cannot believe long lines are intentional in order to sell Trailblazer Passes. If this is so, management is in need of replacement.
I have be to three opening days over the last five years and the lines were not pleasent. All three times I got the same answer- crowd was above projections- i don't have a problem with staffing based upon projections as long as you have a plan when those are exceeded. over my last three opening day visits- no plan to increase capacity once the projections were exceeded.
Quote from: themeparkguy on April 02, 2010, 08:45:41 AM
- crowd was above projections-
Although I will admit that I don't know how theme parks project their crowds for any given day, I can't see how SDC can repeatedly underestimate their opening day projections.
This year, I checked the long range forecast on the Weather Channel 10 days before opening. The original forecast was for 65 and sunny. It never changed leading up to the 18th and turned out to be very accurate. Also, it was Spring Break at every school within a couple hundred miles. Given all that, even I would know that the park would be very busy.
I go every opening day as we are always in the area for Spring Break. This year may have been bad, but it was nothing like 2008 when they were still working on the road and parking lots. That year, traffic was backed up all the way to Titanic. Yes, Titanic. The wait time just to get to the parking lot was 3 hours 15 minutes.
This year, all trams and busses appeared to be running which gave everyone a quick entry and exit to and from the park.
We can go by the long range forecast and see that it's going to be busy, but it's not that easy for the park. The planning for the first few weeks of the park being open takes a lot longer than that. They have to coordinate everything months in advance and 10 days doesn't give them enough time to adjust the amount of staff and supplies needed if they feel the crowd will be larger than projected. It's not that easy. I'm sure they go by historical projections more than anything else when it comes to planning for the park opening. They do the best they can.
Man, this topic has gotten way off the Trailblazer Pass. Maybe it should be renamed or split or something.
Speaking of the TB pass, I can see where people are coming from with the two tier system. I hope they come up with a system where it isn't so obvious that people are being moved to the front of the line. I could never buy one because it would be too much with all of the grumbling and dirty looks as I cut to the front of the line. :-\
I seriously think the long lines are due to great weather and very few shows & shops being open.
This is very true. The shops are closed because they are not supported enough to justify.
How many more employees per ride does it take to run at full capacity?
Some of the SDC veterans will know this.
Multiply this by 8, if I am right these are the larger rides.
Not much of a risk financially, and there is always someone that wants to go home.
Its all service, that is what they are there for.
I wouldn't buy a Trailblazer pass for financial reasons.
Also
I asked the women at the booth last year how many she was selling, she said not many, 30 was the limit per day for her to sell.
SO in retrospect it isn't the money I guess, its just not being prepaired and not feeling the guests unhappiness justify this small added expense.
I myself will complain this year, several times if need be until; I feel I am heard.
The SDC people are reading this as well.
Lets see if they do something about this problem.