SDCFans - The Unofficial Fan Site For Silver Dollar City
Silver Dollar City & Celebration City Discussion => White Water Discussion => Topic started by: shavethewhales on September 19, 2007, 06:43:05 PM
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So several things have popped up about White Water on these forums. Firstly, they've bought the massive 90 outlet mall just up from the park, and may eventually expand over there or even move the entire park. It's also been a consideration for WW to move to CC and the two entities to intertwine. As it is, WW doesn't even own the land they operate on, and space is limited even if they have land up the street.
So what will happen to White Water? I'll assume that for now, the park will stay put and any aggressive plans won't even be really considered for several years or maybe even past a decade, seeing as they seem to be doing well, and have just added new slides. Still though, if they have truly bought the 90 outlet mall, destroying the old park and building a massive new one may not be completely out of the question. 90 Outlets isn't far from the current spot, so not only will guests not be lost, but it shouldn't be too much of a pain relatively to hook up the needed infrastructure. The deal breaker is cost. It'll take many, many millions just to clear out the old park and the outlet mall, and building a new park worthy of the move would be quite costly. Seeing as the park is doing alright where it is, it'll be ages before the idea seems profitable.
What about the idea of WW moving in with CC? Again, tearing down the old park and much of CC would be quite costly, and adding in the new park would be hugely expensive, especially seeing as more infrastructure would have to be moved and built for a water park to function. Still, it would solve CC's issue of cannibalizing SDC's gates, would create an overall fulfilling attraction, and both CC and WW would really benefit from one another. Again though, unless CC unstabalizes again, this won't be looked at as a possibility.
Any thoughts?
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I really don't think that White Water is going anywhere. I don't think it'll merge with CC and I don't think they'll be demolishing any of the old park. I think the park will stay right where it is and maybe a few attractions will go, but I think eventually they will expand the park over to the mall they just bought. But I'm talking 3 or 4 years down the road. I don't think we will see anything happen for awhile.
And if WW is going to be demolished or moved, that would cost a WHOLE lot of money. A whole lot of money that I don't think the Herschend's need to spend. But if it is going to be demolished/moved, I don't think it will happen for a long time. Longer than the expansion to the outlet mall.
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I have heard of the possibility of SDC purchasing the Red Roof Mall, but I haven’t heard that they actually did. How is this confirmed? Did they release anything? They did send out a memo explaining that they purchased the aquarium, but I haven’t heard this about the Red Roof Mall.
I think it would be a great idea for WW and CC to merge. When the High Road is complete it will connect SDC, CC and the SBB together. That is why people were angry at Ashcroft for doing it; allowing all the HFE properties to be along one major road. I think they should take full advantage of this road and have three successful attraction all linked together.
I agree with you Steve; I don’t see them doing this in the next few years. I do know they would like CC to be successful, but if they are not willing to invest quality attractions why should tourist invest there hard earned dollars?
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^Yeah, but if they invest majorly in high-quality attractions, what keeps the park from cannibalizing SDC's gate again? We've already seen so far the Branson cannot support the type of market needed for a true night time theme park. Thus, CC has very little elbow room to do much and not compete with SDC.
Is it possible for WW to expand to the outlet mall from their current location? I would have thought that they would have to demolish the old park and the mall, and rebuild the entire park where the mall was.
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it would be cool if they put a bridge between the old and the new one at the mall
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Apparently the Herschends have made it clear that they have not bought the 90 Outlet mall, and they have no intentions of ever doing so.
It's a shame, as that means the park remains pretty well land-locked.
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yeah mabey not know but mabey in the future
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No, but it sounds like someone else has bought the Red Roof Outlet Mall -- it will be interesting to see what they do with it.
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Someone else as in another retailer, or another investor/developer? I can't imagine many other types of attractions that could do well in Branson right now, what with the competition between the two parks, endless FACs, and everything else. If they aren't going to do shopping, it'll have to be something really different.
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Watch it be more condos >:(
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ok were do u get your information? I can tell you that they will not move WW to CC or will they purchase the outlite mall.. thats rummor. I worked at SDC and i can tell you that that is simply not true.. I do feel that they should allow thongs for women :) sorry I had a moment of weakness
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^We just found that out, read the posts above yours.
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ideaman, even if you have worked at the park for 10 years it doesn't mean you know anymore than the GP. I guarantee that I know more about what is going on then you do, 'course you don't have the connections I do.
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This might be just me being a BIG ProSlide fan, but I feel like WW REALLY needy a Tornado or a PROBowl, or a tornado spinning into a PROBOwl, those are AWESOME!
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^I'm actually quite surprised that they don't have one yet, as popular as they are. They never struck me well though, as I got badly injured on one before, just by falling through the hole the wrong way.
I'm really hoping more for one of the new-fangled water coasters also from Proslide like the Deluge. It might not seem like a good idea to the Herschends though, as it might cut into the coaster image of their theme parks.
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New for 2008 is a new entrance gate which currently being worked on. There is talks about another new slide tower in 2009 as it appears White Water will also be part of Coaster Con
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Will the new entrance jut into the parking lot to allow more space for expansion, or is it just a re-do of what they have?
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I have photos -- will work on getting that uploaded tonight
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Photos of the construction work
http://www.midwestinfoguide.com/whitewater/120507/
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More speed slides in '09?
I was hoping for a ProBowl SO badly!
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I said "slide tower" not speed slides -- "slide tower" could mean about anything
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Where on earth are they going to put them? I hope there's room behind the water play fort, cause it would be a shame if they took any of the current slides out, they're all pretty good.
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Bermuda Triangle is on borrowed time -- it takes up a lot of space and doesn't have very many people since most people forget it is even back there
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Where on earth are they going to put them? I hope there's room behind the water play fort, cause it would be a shame if they took any of the current slides out, they're all pretty good.
I change my mind about wanting WW to get a ProBowl.
if you go to www.proslide.com, click on Tornados, and watch the new Tornado Tantrums video, you'll see thats the thind that would fit perfect in a small space. Name idea? I think maybe
1. SPLASH Lagoon
2. Typoon
3. Twister Lagoon or Hurricane Lagoon
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Ah yes, I really like this concept, as it turns previously boring slide gimmicks into an actually fulfilling experience.
I really just want a new slide tower, similar to what Magic Springs just got with the 8-10 different slides.
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Was WW attendance down a whole bunch this year?
Two new rides in a year for a Water Park that seems to get TOO big crowds seems
kindof strange. And ever since the CC thing I've just been wondering, has all this slide tower stuff been confirmed?
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Was WW attendance down a whole bunch this year?
I don't think WW Branson attendance was down this year. The website www.parkworld-online.com (http://www.parkworld-online.com) releases annual worldwide theme park attendance figures and it notes growth for both waterparks and themeparks worldwide. Interestingly, if you read the 2007 attendance report, HFE has vaulted into the top 10 in attendance for worldwide amusement/theme park chains (#9. with 8.9 million visiting their properties last year). Park World notes that this is due to both acquisitions and attendance increases for 2007. None of their Branson properties placed in attendance rankings; two HFE properties placed in the top 15 2007 US Waterparks (Dollywood's Splash Country #11. 491,000 and WW Georgia 469,000). Splash Country's 2007 attendance was enough for it to place at #19 in worldwide waterpark attendance.
I couldn't find any specific WW figures for Branson. The latest SDC attendance figures I could find are from 2006; attendance was up 7.3% to 2,050,000. Park World noted that this is due mainly to the Grand Exposition expansion. It is widely noted that SDC attendance has been on an upward trend for a few decades and this growth is unlikely to end soon.
I expect HFE properties like WW Branson and SDC to follow worldwide theme park attendance trends, which have been increasing for a few years. So I don't think attendance is a problem. I have a feeling HFE may add some sort of attraction if Coaster Con is visiting WW Branson in addition to CC and SDC. As for what it may be, I don't know. Kalani Towers is still new, so a new slide tower doesn't seem likely IMO. Maybe a new thrill tube ride like a tornado or probowl. I think people would like that. I don't know where they'd put it. IMO, if they replace an old ride Bermuda Triangle seems most likely to be on the way out.
You should really check out Park World online if attendance figures interest you. It's really interesting! 8)
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Attendance Figures:
2007
Silver Dollar City - 2.03 million
Celebration City - 330,000
White Water - 251,000
2006
Silver Dollar City - 2.07 million
Celebration City - 331,000
White Water - 250,000
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I think WW Branson’s attendance would have grown more in 07, but the rains really put a damper on things.
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Attendance Figures:
2007
Silver Dollar City - 2.03 million
Celebration City - 330,000
White Water - 251,000
2006
Silver Dollar City - 2.07 million
Celebration City - 331,000
White Water - 250,000
Thanks for the figures, Swoosh! Man, it's great to have a few people on here that work for SDC and can give us an inside scoop! ;D I wish I had known that you knew these figures before I went digging for them. It would've saved me some time and effort. Oh, well. It wasn't a complete waste because I did find Park World online, which is a really great resource. Do you have any updates on the renovation of the WW entrance or the possibility of a new ride in '09? Also, and I don't know if you know this, but I'll ask. Do you know how HFE feels about attendance at their Branson properties? It looks pretty steady from '06 to '07. Are they happy with the figures and do they expect a growth in '08?
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Last time I checked, they feel that the attendance this year at SDC will remain flat, WW will depend on the weather (but they think it might be up due to how hot this summer is supposed to be). They are predicting CC's to be up due to the addition of Roaring Falls.
I do not have any updates on the entrance to WW, but I was told it was done. I'll try to get an update from there and "around the horn" when I am in town the weekend of the 18th-20th.
That's all I got right now
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Any new updates on what WW's new entrance is shaping up to be?
you can't see anything from the main road, and the back way all you see is trees and the bermuta tryangle if you look REALLY hard!
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Actually you can see a lot -- I'll post an update Sunday
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I know this is WAY pas the last post on this... But was in Branson last weekend and noticed the Red Roof Mall is now a Simon property.
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I know this is WAY pas the last post on this... But was in Branson last weekend and noticed the Red Roof Mall is now a Simon property.
I know this is waayy late but I noticed the Red Roof Mall is now a Branson City Property. lol
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What they need to do is bring the White Water franchise up 35 miles to Springfield. I know that would hurt White Water a ton because I know a bunch of Springfield residents that are season ticket holders, BUT for the size the Springfield Metro is to not have a water park is just astounding. Even if it wasn't much, it would be wildly popular. There isn't jack squat to do in Springfield for kids.
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What they need to do is bring the White Water franchise up 35 miles to Springfield. I know that would hurt White Water a ton because I know a bunch of Springfield residents that are season ticket holders, BUT for the size the Springfield Metro is to not have a water park is just astounding. Even if it wasn't much, it would be wildly popular. There isn't jack squat to do in Springfield for kids.
Was thinking the same for NWA. I can think of a half dozen sites that would do the trick
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Around 2004 the powers that be in NW Arkansas considered putting in a waterpark at the Lowell exit on I-540. JB Hunt was selling a large parcel of land on the southwest side of the overpass. The idea died because at the time there was insufficient water lines to run water to the park from Beaver Lake, and the cost of putting them in was apparently not worth it. I wish they would have built it...I would have applied for a job. Springdale and Rogers both have aquatic parks, which I understand are pretty good...but a real waterpark like Whitewater would be great! 8)
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Around 2004 the powers that be in NW Arkansas considered putting in a waterpark at the Lowell exit on I-540. JB Hunt was selling a large parcel of land on the southwest side of the overpass. The idea died because at the time there was insufficient water lines to run water to the park from Beaver Lake, and the cost of putting them in was apparently not worth it. I wish they would have built it...I would have applied for a job. Springdale and Rogers both have aquatic parks, which I understand are pretty good...but a real waterpark like Whitewater would be great! 8)
The first place for a waterpark proposal in NWA was for the parcel of land that is sfill for sale today at the US 62 exit in Fayetteville. At the time is was deemed that the population base still wasn't there.
The parcel of land you are talking about was supposed to get the Walmart that is now at the Pleasant Grove exit. That was actually a Gary Combs project. He was then married to Carla Tyson. Yes, the sewer issues didn't actually get resolved until just a couple of years ago under my fraternity brother' time in the planning office in Lowell. He's moved on to Hutchinson KS. Anyway, the walmart deal fell through cause Gary couldn' stop running his mouth leaking the info. The sewer would have been taken care of af that time. That par el is somewhat elevated and not visable from 540 for the most part. Thag issue also cosf that parcel also cost Lowell a new a large scale car dealership.
Anywho. I would design it small but mighty at first buf with room to grow. Two of the beat places are alomg the interstate at Pleasant Grove whare the new Mega Hanks is at. Or along 540 in Springdale in fhe Arvest Ballpark area. Sprimgdale plans an interchans that will carry Don Tyson Parkway over 540 to the Ballpark area. Remember that very small golf course once there? Another site is a complete ripoff of the Cowabunga Bay concept in Draper Utah at the parcel of land once used by the AMP at Northwest Arkansas Mall. It would utilize the existing parking lot for the most part and offer great views to the south of Fayetteville and stand above being highly visable in a heavy retail area. Just a little too far south to be perfect plus I know Fayetteville's plannimg would be the most difficult to deal with.
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Anything new or different planned for Whitewater for 2013? Maybe it is too early and the powers that be have not released public info on anything yet. Chime in!
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I'm not expecting anything. They never add anything large to WW when SDC is getting something big and vice-versa. We've been expecting a new slide addition/replacement for years now, but it seems they're still taking it somewhat slow and focusing more on enhancing what already exists and promoting new events like night water.
Maybe they'll be due for something in 2014 though... I'd say at the very least it will be time to redo another piece of the park.
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I say just close the place, start over and build new out by SDC. While they're at it, move the SBB landing out to Indian Point and just have all of the SDC-HFEC Branson properties in one spot (other than Ducks if they still own that)
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I say just close the place, start over and build new out by SDC. While they're at it, move the SBB landing out to Indian Point and just have all of the SDC-HFEC Branson properties in one spot (other than Ducks if they still own that)
Not against that one bit.
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I don't know if we've mentioned it on these boards yet, but DW's Splash Country is getting a proslide water coaster for 2013. If it turns out to be a success, which it will be, I wouldn't be surprised to see them show up at WW and WA's waterpark.
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I don't know if we've mentioned it on these boards yet, but DW's Splash Country is getting a proslide water coaster for 2013. If it turns out to be a success, which it will be, I wouldn't be surprised to see them show up at WW and WA's waterpark.
Shave hadn't heard about that yet....
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I agree with some of the above statements about closing and starting over. The one exception is I think they could really use the old CC site and do A combo water park/Aquarium type project. The summer could be a dual ticket type that allows access to both areas then during the winter a reduced aquarium only admission policy could be in effect. Maybe the water screen and nighttime show area of the old CC could also be incorporated as a movie under the stars during the summer or a nighttime show like it was before. It sure seems like this would be a better use of assets and return on investment than building on new ground away from everything else in Branson. But then again, maybe the Aquarium phase has already passed Branson by and it is to late.
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No. Everything needs to be out at Silver Dollar City and they need to make it more into a resort area - as in EVERYTHING needs to be there. Make it a mini-Walt Disney World. Make it be the REASON that people are coming to Branson and make Branson the secondary reason. More on resort spending.
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Swoosh, Not that I totally disagree with you about the resort aspect. But , would the infrastructure support what you propose. Could Hwy 76 handle the additional traffic to transport that many additional guest west daily. I think it would take a commitment from the state to complete the High Road project before anything of that caliper could be done, and I do not see MODOT having the funds anytime in the near future. Also, are you talking about resort hotels also ? That would be a neat idea although I think it would take a yearlong season to make that feasible. I like your idea, but still like mine to. It is fun to toss around ideas though.
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Considering that the High Road already connects the major highway south from Springfield to 76 and SDC, I don't see a problem. Remember they are going FOR Silver Dollar City NOT Branson now - there is no need to connect High Road to Branson with this thinking.
The new waterpark would be located where the grass parking lot near Deer Run is currently and then go East. There would be at least one resort hotel and it would be on the hill across from TNT/GE on the other side of the road. You could then have either an elevated walkway or some type of transportation system (trolley?) that went over the road to the park's entrance.
It really isn't that far out of thinking.
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As long as we are planning a grand resort, what about leveling the land where the main parking lot is...that vast expanse from stop two on the trams moving toward the park, and put in a large three or four story parking deck? Perhaps they can take some of the other smaller lots, convert them back to grass or trees, and still have ample parking. Plus, get rid of all trams, busses, and the like, and put in an elevated monorail or a trolly line to connect everything? Hey, if I could park at the resort, then take the trolly or monorail to the new WW location and on to SDC, wouldn't that be nice?
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But now Junior, with a monorail, your talking Disneyworld and not SDC in feeling.
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But now Junior, with a monorail, your talking Disneyworld and not SDC in feeling.
Gotta be green trams. :)
I never thought of parking garages, but that's actually a good idea both for closer parking, and for reclaiming a lot of land.
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But now Junior, with a monorail, your talking Disneyworld and not SDC in feeling.
Gotta be green trams. :)
I never thought of parking garages, but that's actually a good idea both for closer parking, and for reclaiming a lot of land.
Please. PLEASE! Bring back Todd's green Trams