SDCFans - The Unofficial Fan Site For Silver Dollar City
Silver Dollar City & Celebration City Discussion => General Silver Dollar City Talk => Topic started by: shavethewhales on September 12, 2007, 08:02:09 PM
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Since it's inception, Celebration City has been kind of a slight failure for the Herschends. The park itself is fantastic, but on the business side of things, the park failed to pull in much of a profit from 2003-2006, and during the first two years SDC's own gate was cannibalized by CC as some visitors decided they had to chose between the two parks rather than accept the two-park deal SDC had envisioned as being a success.
Even now that SDC's attendance is back on the rise again, CC hasn't apparently been doing much better. Last I heard during last season, the park was running a low, flat profit, not making much more than it's operating costs.
Several attempts to 'fix' the park have been made, but only a few bare any promise of helping CC become much of a success. CC has long abandoned it's original purpose of truly being a nighttime theme park in favor of attraction younger families which are prolific in Branson, but may not have deep enough pockets for SDC. Indeed, CC has almost become a poor man's SDC. They even tried an experiment last summer, where they lowered the price for a day pass to about $20, but that has since changed back.
So has the park gotten better yet? Did their profits go up this season? Unfortunately, they haven't participated in any of the online attendance-releases, so one can't really know how well they are doing except by word of mouth.
Hope remains though, as the park is steadily working to improve itself. Starting out is tough, especially when the situation is as picky as this one. General improvements and atmospheric additions have been a major thing so far, with the addition of new shows, the Circus Gardens, and a new marketing strategy. I expect to see the park focus almost entirely on young families for the next several season, possibly taking out some larger rides to do so. It won't stay like that forever though, as general progress in Branson is bringing exponential increases in visitors, so much so that eventually CC won't have to worry so much about competing with SDC anymore and can go back to it's original purpose.
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So you think the companies were competing against themselves when they opened CC?
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The Herschends did receive a backfire initially, which was everyone's worry, but it's since then stabilized. It's hard to say how much of a backfire it was though, as the 2003 season was a tough one all around. I mean, pretty much every park dropped in attendance.
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Yeah, the addition of PK to SDC sure did help SDC's attendance. Ozark Wildcat was at CC in '03 wasn't it?
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Yes, OzCat was the only reason CC didn't fail miserably from the start. I mean, I wouldn't have gone without it. If they only had another headlining attraction, they'd be much better off. As it is, that probably won't happen until SDC gets their next headliner, and if that happens in 2009, we won't see anything big at CC until 2010-11 at the earliest. Until then I expect to see the park swamped with family-friendly ventures.
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What if the Herschends focused on Branson in 2009? They could add the much awaited woodie to SDC and another headliner attraction at CC. Would they do that?
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Probably not. Like two parties in a presidential race, you don't want to have the crowds split. Remember, one of the reasons CC hasn't been a bigger success is that people have decided to choose one park, rather than both due to costs, time, or whatever. That makes it all the more probable that CC will not only have to wait till after SDC gets it's turn, but even longer so that the glory fades a little for CC to be able to shine clearly.
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Good point. Your smart Steve. You'd make a good business man. Haha.
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You are right Steve. The whole reason Pete Herschend wanted the board to purchase Branson USA was to stop competitor parks from purchasing the property and cannibalizing on Silver Dollar City’s attendance and now there own park is doing that. I have heard several rumors about the property. I like the thought of turning CC into White Water, it would be a park like their former WW Atlanta; it would be a profitable idea. I did read in another post that HFE purchased the Red Roof Mall, I have heard people say they should do this, but I haven’t heard that the actually did. It would be an odd purchase. After all HFE doesn’t own the property WW sits on they only lease the land.
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^Hmmm, I wouldn't have thought that HFEC would lease land for something that large, so I also would expect them to move the park, or at least buy the land.
I dunno about turning CC into White Water though. Afterall, they spent over $40 million on the park thus far, I kinda want to see it succed as a park in some way. Maybe if they turned the larger portion of it into WW, and left a few things like OzCat behind for a small trolley-park to accompany it, just like at Wyandot Lake.
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Aren't they also on a 99-year lease for Marvel Cave?
That'd be an interesting idea to turn CC into WW with a few things left behind. That'd be neat.
~ "Becky" Joy ~
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I guess my thought was to theme WW at CC Coney Island style circa 1910-1920. In no way would they use the Coney Island name, I wouldn’t want that; it would only be the themeing they would use.
Create a better boardwalk area and keep the Wildcat, Farris Wheel and certain other rides. The space shot ride could look like a diving horse show ect… The area where they present the fireworks show could be transformed into a kick ass wave pool, with waterfalls and all.
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hey guys thi is a random question but is there a "b" and "b" ride company?? ???
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^None that I can think of right away. There is a company called B&M however, whom are famous for Wildfire and Batman: The Ride.
I could really spring for a boardwalk, I just don't see it happening in forever. With WW and CC pretty well established, it would be terribly costly to move them in together. Besides, think of the infrastructure that would have to be taken care of at the old site and built at the new site.
I expect to see CC go on struggling and limping, trying to find its niche', for another decade or so. Maybe we'll see a cheap coaster here and a mildly good flat there, but I can't see much happening unless things start to really pick up for the park. After all, look what happened this year: they bought a highly used, rusted-out Wisdom Tornado. They don't exactly seem keen on investing in big rides or much right now, not even in shows (the new stages were pretty cheap). As long as they can get away with cheap gimmicks, I think we'll be bombarded with them until they can figure something out. Sigh...
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Hopefully, I'm doing this right (first time). I went to CC the second year it opened but returned this August. I hated CC the first time. This time, though, I was really happy with the sea lion show, parrots, veggietale (at least my 4 year old loved it), and legoland. I think that shows and other one year events could be the secret to success for the park.
A few folks mentioned that families are CC target audience. I totally agree. Expanding on this, though: If CC would bring in some mid-level Christian rock bands- make it a series of Thursday Night shows, they could youth ministers pack that park out. The Christian community totally trust SDC and CC and want to make them prosper. CC has offered nothing except the dinking Family Praise day that coming up on OCT 20. C'mon!!!!!! There are families and youth wanting to spend time together in Branson and money to be made. CC needs to seal the deal.
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Really good idea Tom. I have not yet been to CC but that would get me there!! Welcome to the forums. We're all pretty nice here.
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A few folks mentioned that families are CC target audience. I totally agree. Expanding on this, though: If CC would bring in some mid-level Christian rock bands- make it a series of Thursday Night shows, they could youth ministers pack that park out. The Christian community totally trust SDC and CC and want to make them prosper. CC has offered nothing except the dinking Family Praise day that coming up on OCT 20. C'mon!!!!!! There are families and youth wanting to spend time together in Branson and money to be made. CC needs to seal the deal.
Quite a good point, especially seeing as the Young Christian day at SDC is probably the second most-crowded day of the season, if not the most. That's the only time I've seen Wildfire's overflow queue used since 2001.
Btw, Welcome to the forums.
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Unfortunately, they haven't participated in any of the online attendance-releases, so one can't really know how well they are doing except by word of mouth.
Not true, you just have to know who to ask.
2006 attendances for all 3 parks
Silver Dollar City 2.07 million.
Celebration City 331,000
White Water 250,000.
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Ah, I guess I just didn't check the right ones, thanks.
Wow though, I would have expected something more like half a million. SDC's attendance seems like it should be higher too.
Hmmm, I don't get it, they're outrageously popular and they the best reputation of any business in the world, so why aren't more people flocking in?
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Hmmm, I guess I don't understand your question. The attendance was up actually by quite a lot. SDC outdrew all of the other parks in Missouri and almost SFStL and WOF combined last year.
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Huh, I guess I just haven't looked very closely at attendance figures for awhile, I just assumed it was much higher than that. I mean, doesn't DW draw in 6 million easy? It just feels like it used to be higher for some reason.
I also just figured it was down because of the bad reports from earlier this season, but I guess they got over that.
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No. Dollywood doesn't draw much more than SDC.
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The problem with CC is that the people are rude. they dont seem to want to be there. .no smiles.. no laughing.. its just dead.. also the other problems is that SDC and CC management as well as the HFECopr people is that they are very territorial. they dont share there territory or afraid that someone will make them look bad if they accept an idea from an employee. the result is a dead and boring park like CC and SDC is following close in the tracks. ill explain more about that later. What will make CC successful? Well they need to hold concerts once a month on the lawn were the lazer light show is. they could have Charlie Danels Band.. peoople lilke that.. Also they could have things such as a balloon glow.. look it up on the internet they are popular.. Also the shops are the Same as SDC. Boring!!!! get new shops that are differnt. They sell the same old stuff and its too expensive. they make up everyting 75%. Now Back to SDC. They really need to bring back the crafts. They said they will but in reality they will never do it. again its because of territory. The food is way to expensive. who can afford to eat there?
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^I've actually had really good times with the CC staff. I know several Wildcat ops who always go to the next level to make sure everyone is having a good time. However, they do select from a different crowd to staff the park, and a few aren't so great, but park-wise the place is run excellently.
Same shops as SDC? Meh, as of now there aren't exactly many shops to base that claim off of. Of the few they have though, Paper Moon and the Magic shop can't be found at SDC, and there was once a Beach-themed shop that comes and goes.
As far as food, you should look at the other parks: both CC and SDC kick some serious ass in that department. Though the prices are just a tad bit higher than any would like, they have a few more things to pay for than ordinary restaurants. Even with the prices being what they are though, they are MUCH lower than almost any other park's, and the portions are much larger. Look at FC: $8 for a crap burger with a small drink.
However, I do agree that more concerts and shows would do the park good, and they surely know that. I assume that we'll see more and more of those likes over the coming years.
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So maybe a "ROCK"-toberfest thing should go on during the Fall.
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So maybe a "ROCK"-toberfest thing should go on during the Fall.
I think that'd be a great idea. But it's not easy to bring in people like the Charlie Daniels Band.
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^With the Herschends rep, it wouldn't be hard to book a bunch of Christian-youth oriented bands. I mean, look at FC: they have a yearly concert series featuring such, and it's a huge hit for them. SDC already has one weekend out of the year where they bring in a bunch of Christian bands, and it's usually one of the most crowded weekends of the year.
The only thing is, would they have to build a new stage on the lawn, or is there already a set up for that? I haven't looked over there since the place opened.
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I'll post this in the rumors section too, but my dad showed me one of the surveys HFEC did and it looks like CC will become Wild Adventures in a few years. I'm not real happy about them abandoning the concept of CC and would rather see them put that kind of money into CC, but if they do turn it into Wild Adventures, it'll probably be something worth going to. I just hope they don't cheap it out like they did CC. I mean everything they've put in since the second year has either been low budget or used. SDC gets all new things so I am hoping WA will be given the same treatment as SDC after it opens in Branson, should it happen. Imagine, two SDC quality (one of which is SDC) parks only miles apart... it might be happening.
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^I somehow doubt they'd go to the trouble of re-theming the park. What good would it do? The park is already well laid out to a theme everyone likes.
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Hey, I agree with you. I like the idea of CC and think they should stick with it. I really believe the lack of success within the park is their fault. I mean, the park's first couple of years was good, but then they quit adding things that really drew. I mean the new laser show was good, but I don't think it really increased CC's audience. The Stinger probably helped some, but it's no Wildfire, Powder Keg, Wildcat, Grand Exposition, or even a Giant Swing. I really think they need to invest in CC like do in SDC.
People continuously tell me that it's not meant to be the same quality as SDC in terms of rides, but I ask, "why not?" I'd love to see some sort of dark ride put in, a few theaters, maybe even borrow SDC's crafts and just make them more modern. If they really invested in the park (without completely scrapping it), it would be a hot spot (just like SDC). Again, people often disagree with me there, but I really think the park has potential. With a few more indoor activities, some more hands on (craft like) stuff, and another high ranking coaster, the park will be a must visit. I also think with a few more indoor things, it could stay open longer like SDC does. Maybe March to November or something. I think I made my point though; they should invest in their current park if they're willing to spend several million dollars (which is probably what the overhaul would take).
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As we've discussed before though, who wants to risk another 40+ million on a park that barely makes it's way? Whose to say that it will do better when it shows hardly any signs of promise?
The problem with CC is that the goal it was attended to meet can't be achieved at this point in Branson. It was built to be a classy night park along the lines of Riverside park in Denver, but the way families turn in or go to shows in the evenings after a day at SDC has cut this prospect shorter than was anticipated.
I mean, why would the Herschends want to keep building up CC if it's just going to compete with SDC? With it's major purpose gone, a major overhaul into a different kind of attraction really does seem plausible.
Btw, to avoid having to repeat things, we should keep this topic strictly for discussing CC's attendance and such, and the other for discussing the rumor of it being re-built.
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Yeah, I just wanted to add the survey note here too since the topic is "How is CC doing?" and the possibility of it closing/changing is a sign that it is not doing so good (at least from the company's viewpoint.
And the reason I suggest for them to just heavily invest in CC rather than a completely new park is because I think CC can sell if given the real chance and it would probably be able to be done a lot cheaper than a almost complete overhaul. I also believe if CC and SDC were to compete, it would be similar to the Disney parks and only make the parks better. If both parks are really worth going to, people will go to them. I mean, instead of spending a weekend in Branson, it may turn to a week in Branson. Obviously that would take some time, but I think it could happen.
But yeah, if you would like, we can discuss this in the rumors area (although it's not really a rumor since it was their official survey team conducting it). I posted it there too so I have no problem talking there. I just thought this was an answer the question asked. Either way, if Wild Adventures gets put in, or CC gets a big improvement, I think we're in for a treat and that imo is something to get excited about.
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They are not going to open a new park in Branson, I'll squash that rumor right now. Now the integration of animals into CC is very plausible. Last year was a "test" to see how animals at the park would be received -- and it was very favorable. It's no secret that HFEC is getting into the Animal field -- buying Aquariums and Butterfly Houses, etc
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Does anyone have any hard core data to prove the premis of this post? Is CC doing a bad or even slightly negative job? Sure CC is experimenting, but people seem to be showing up for the experiment. Last year I went on a Tuesday in August and the shows were attended pretty well. The Sea Lion show was packed. I thought that some things were executed poorly, but my children and I had a pretty good time. As I have posted before, I have no idea why CC has not milked the Ozarkian Christian Market a little more. But again, they've done fine. Name any five-year old under 50-acre park and tell me how its better.
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^While this season was probably better, it was often noted in the first few years that the Herschends had expected much higher numbers from CC.
I don't have any specific sources, my info on this was garnered from hearing tidbits now and then.
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The family and I came back yesterday from a trip to SDC and Celebration City. I don't know if it is the heat, hills or what, but sometimes I think the family as a whole is beginning to enjoy Celebration City as much or more than SDC. From the close parking to the less hilly terrain, the atmosphere is much more relaxing. There is plenty to do for everyone, and the night coolness was very welcomed compared to the muggy afternoon at SDC. The trees are starting to really develop at Celebration City also making the park really feel established.
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^ That's good to hear. Every time I drive by CC I wonder why anyone would want to go there with SDC, such a great park, right around the corner. I hope the HFE continues to achieve what they want to achieve with CC. I'm sure having kids at CC is more enjoyable than at SDC. I admit, I was a pain when my parents wanted to stop and watch demonstrations. All I wanted to do was ride the rides. Are your kids young or old?
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It's nice to hear that the park is maturing. Hopefully in the next few years they'll be able to add a few more shows, a couple more shops, and a few choice rides to really settle out the park, then they can go back to the original plans for the park and really develop it into more of a nighttime park with extensive lighting and cool nighttime events. I still think the original idea can really work, if the park can just get there. Unfortunately, there's probably more money in the short and long run in turning the park into more of a mixed attraction with animals and other things, so we'll just see what happens.
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Does the park resemble SDC at all or is it more like a Six Flags park? Do they have a lot of games meant to take all your money?
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^I don't know, we've never been. I don't think we'll ever go either just because SDC is so close by and we like it a ton so we just don't think it'd be worth it.
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^^ It doesn't really compare to six flags, or at least any six flags I've been to. CC has all the Herschend charm with a lot more rides involved. It's extremely well themed, though the atmosphere is no where near SDC quality just because of the way the park is so set on rides rather than being an overall experience like SDC.
It is certainly a park for ride lovers still, though there are a few nice shops and some great shows from time to time. The rides themselves are pretty good, but lacking in number. Like I said, the park needs to expand more in every area before it can really make it, but it can make it.
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It does look extremely small for a theme park. I feel exactly the same as you Coaster. I've never wanted to go to CC because I would only think about how much more fun I'd be having at SDC. I just recently went to Six Flags Over TX and thought that same thing. I want to appreciate more than just the rides.
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Sonthew- Our kids are 2 and 4. They love both parks, but seem to tire in SDC a little more. Dodging the crowds with a stroller can be cumbersome at times also. They have a boardwalk area that is exclusively games but it is much like the Exposition area at SDC. No one annoys you to play.
We have the city hopper pass so it isn't an either/or sort of thing. I can't imagine going to Celebration City exclusively either as we love the theme and atmosphere at SDC, but Celebration City is a nice little park in itself. The super short lines and smaller crowds are also refreshing, although I am sure that's not what the Herschends want. We went with friends and were able to easily walk/talk and relax in between rides instead of the single file dodge you do at SDC. The lazer show is also a great way to stretch out on the lawn and end the night.
I was surprised to see some of the attractions such as the carousel and Orbiter not operating. Even with these closed there was still plenty to do for everyone.
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^ I try my hardest to avoid games at amusement parks. The toys themselves seem to be just as disturbing as the game workers. At Six Flags there was a kid who I swear followed me around the park the entire day bouncing his basketball. All I could think was, this would never happen at a Herschend establishment. I'm glad to hear this doesn't happen at CC. That City Hopper pass seems to be a good deal. Does your family live close enough to go frequently?
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I have been to CC a few times and it is a nice little park. A good change of pace; it seems more relaxed than SDC just because the park, and crowds, are smaller. I also went when it was Branson USA and that was fun too.
The bouncing basketballs at Six Flags annoy me to no end as well, sonthew! >:( I just kept wishing I was at SDC every time I heard the bounce, bounce, bounce of the basketballs.
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I know there are exceptions, but CC feels more like a traveling amusement park that anchored its rides and carnival games. There are some great theming elements and it's worth going to especially if you can find some free tickets somewhere.
And - you guys aren't annoyed by the basketballs at SDC? They are my number one pet peeve! The noise wreaks havoc with the atmosphere - even in the Exposition area - and I just want to grab one and kick it into Echo Hollow whenever some kid starts his bouncing. Besides that, the balls are decorated with team names that probably didn't exist in the 1880s - at the very least, they should have SDC logos on them, and maybe team names like "The American Plunge Daredevils" or "The Wildfire Wildcats". Or how about "Dugan's Divers" or "The Marvel Cave Marvels"?
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^ I've never experienced a bouncing basketball at SDC and I hope I never do. It's kind of upsetting that there are games with prizes like that there. It would be neat if the prizes were toys kids played with in the 1800's. I haven't seen the games at SDC. Are they only in the Exposition area?
I suppose we're getting a little off topic. Sorry to steer us off track.
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^ I've never experienced a bouncing basketball at SDC and I hope I never do. It's kind of upsetting that there are games with prizes like that there. It would be neat if the prizes were toys kids played with in the 1800's.
A little more OT, but I thought I would mention Dollywood has bouncing basketballs now. It's not quite on the extreme level of what you see at other parks, but they certainly have a presence. It really annoys me that the games department or whoever decided to introduce them was just so ignorant and didn't take into account how they would effect the atmosphere of the park. It's like they went to Six Flags and said, "Hey, they are making money off of this, why don't we do it?".
The simple solution would be to hand the basketballs out deflated. (I believe that's actually what they use to do up until last season or so)
I hope it doesn't get to the point that they are just everywhere, like at SF.
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^ I try my hardest to avoid games at amusement parks. The toys themselves seem to be just as disturbing as the game workers. At Six Flags there was a kid who I swear followed me around the park the entire day bouncing his basketball. All I could think was, this would never happen at a Herschend establishment. I'm glad to hear this doesn't happen at CC. That City Hopper pass seems to be a good deal. Does your family live close enough to go frequently?
We live close enough to get there pretty often. It makes for some pretty good vacationing over the summer. The kids love it, and there is so much to do at both parks that we end up getting our money's worth out of the passes. There is going to be a lot more to do when the kids get old enough to ride the Ozark Wildcat and similar rides.
The games at Celebration City seem to only have the stuffed animals. We always pass those things on by as there is too much to do to throw balls at bottles and baskets. We figure we can do that at home much more cheaply. ;D
SDC forever- We went to the old Branson USA with our nephews. We didn't ride anything but there were quite a few rides (30 in all I think). I remember it being eerily empty with ride ops running three or more rides. :o
When my wife and I were first married we walked around Mutton Hollow and video taped a lot of it. I can't find the tape for the life of me, but we have seen that little patch of land morph quite a little bit. It may not be done yet!
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SDC forever- We went to the old Branson USA with our nephews. We didn't ride anything but there were quite a few rides (30 in all I think). I remember it being eerily empty with ride ops running three or more rides. :o
When my wife and I were first married we walked around Mutton Hollow and video taped a lot of it. I can't find the tape for the life of me, but we have seen that little patch of land morph quite a little bit. It may not be done yet!
All the times we went to Branson USA it was really empty as well. There were a lot of rides, and it was so empty that we could ride even the big rides (coasters, etc.) multiple times in a row without getting back in line.
We enjoyed going to Mutton Hollow too. I think I have some pictures in an old photo album somewhere, but no video.
I think CC will change some more as well. I agree with you; that piece of land isn't done morphing yet.
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My family and I are going to Branson next week for the first time. We are taking my parents and have 3 children( 8,5, and 2). We are going to silver dollar city for sure and will do one more park. Do you guys recommend white water or celebration city. Initially I'm thinking water park for something different. Alspo with parents and kids how are the bungalows at white water; I was thinking of getting one for the day if we go there.
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^It all depends on how long you will stay. You could spend a day at either CC or WW. If you're looking for something different, I recommend WW. If you think your parents might tire out early at SDC, then you could hit CC in the same day for a more relaxed atmosphere (you could stay past dark at CC too). If you think your group can spend a day at SDC, then I recommend hitting WW on a different day. Your group could split up for a while and each do what they want to do.
I would recommend a cabana (I assume that's what you mean when you say bungalow) if your family and/or your parents would like some privacy and comfort. It's pricey (80 to 100 dollars for a day), but it does have a TV and a few other amenities (like a ceiling fan). If you think you could relax just on a reclining lawn chair then save your money. Those are plentiful! :)
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I didn't want to start a new thread for this but, I nearly rode Ozark Wildcat solo today. :o The family went to the sprinklers for the kids soon after the park opened today and I saw the "Cat" running. I strolled over for a ride and walked on. It was really odd to sit in the back car and realize that no one else was on it. I was really hoping for some more people to get on because it was oddly unsettling to be the only one, as I didn't want them to run it around the track just for me. The ride ops were really nice though. Luckily a few people came and sat up front. Later in the day the park had a pretty good crowd, but it was weird for a little while to see so few people.
Also had my first experience with unfriendly ride ops in one of the kiddy sections. There were a couple of young European girls who seemed almost annoyed with the kids that were riding (not just my kids, but all of the kids that were riding). My kids always thank the ride ops after they get off of the rides and the girls would just look at them with disdain. They were so laughably annoyed that it almost reminded you of a bad Saturday Night Live skit. The ride ops are usually really nice, and everyone else in the park was great. I always wonder why they would choose to work in a theme park if they really don't want to be there. There was an older gentleman earlier working one of the kiddy rides and he was excellent. He would high five the kids and really seemed to be having fun with them.
All in all it was a great day. The kids really like this park.
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For some reason they have a lot more "European" workers working at Celebration City then the other two parks. With some, I think it is a cultural barrier that causes them to be so "disconnected" that they appear to not care... and then others just do not get "it".
Whatever.
Celebration City is doing all right attendance-wise. The new Roaring Falls has helped some with the overall attendance lag that all Branson parks have been feeling this year due to the gas-woes. The thing that CC has going for it is the fact that it is cheaper to go to then SDC, so some of the more "tight pocket book" families are opting to go there instead of SDC. The bad part about that is, you are seeing a lot more "Six Flags St. Louis style crowds" -- which include those who have to be SEEN by everyone and will make a scene to be SEEN, if you know what I mean without spelling it out completely.
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There is an international student exchange program... during kids fest every year. SDC has them as well, but most of them end up in the food dept or behind the scenes because of the interactions with guests. Kodak has nearly doubled their employees with international workers during this time. CC gets way more than their fair share and they are in Ride Ops positions over there. I've not had any rude trips there though. I speak Russian so I throw out a phrase or two and they are happy to hear their native tongue... alot of the workers are from the Former Soviet Union or it's break away countries.
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Yeah, I consider the language barrier, and always give them the benefit of the doubt, but a little kid smiling at you and saying thank you would seem to be internationally understood. Not a big deal, just an observation. I could really care less. I just noticed it a little more since it happened to be kids just having the time of their lives that interupted their icey trance. Ninety Nine percent of the time the foreign students are actually really charming. I also understand that they don't have to be back to school as early as U.S. students, so it makes them an attractive hire.