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Silver Dollar City & Celebration City Discussion => General Silver Dollar City Talk => Topic started by: SharkWatch on October 26, 2022, 07:15:55 PM

Title: Train Crash?
Post by: SharkWatch on October 26, 2022, 07:15:55 PM
I am hearing a report that the Silver Dollar City train derailed today and that many people have ben injured and are being transported to Springfield for emergency care. One of my friends who was on park this evening hard many sirens as they were leaving the park.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: mg on October 26, 2022, 07:21:12 PM
It did go to temp closed at 6:30 this evening.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: mg on October 26, 2022, 07:26:52 PM
Saw some posts on Facebook. Initial reports are that everyone was able to walk away with minor injuries except for 2 that were more serious. Not extent I’d the serious ones is known.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: SDCisHome on October 26, 2022, 07:54:15 PM
From the video I saw on Facebook, it looks like engine 504 was running. The tender looked partially derailed with car 1 off the rails at a 45 degrees. Cars 2 and 3 completely off at 90 degrees. Car 4 didn’t derail. The location looked like it was back over in the “Pottersville, Missouri” area. Ironically, that would be close to where the “old wreck of 82” is said. My father in law listens to the scanners and has heard many injuries, approximately 68 “green” and 3 “yellow” with 1 being transported to Springfield.

Praying for those hurt and injured!
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: SharkWatch on October 26, 2022, 08:00:34 PM
https://www.ozarksfirst.com/local-news/local-news-local-news/heavy-emergency-responder-presence-at-silver-dollar-city/
Here's a link to Ozarks First with a picture
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: sdcfan88 on October 26, 2022, 08:42:06 PM
Pretty bad stuff. https://www.facebook.com/100062527059929/videos/1469541250223467/

EDIT: Makes me wonder in the wake of this, they may nix Ichabod and the Ol' wreck of '82 from the script since this is roughly where this happened.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Lampie on October 26, 2022, 08:59:25 PM
Pretty bad stuff. https://www.facebook.com/100062527059929/videos/1469541250223467/

EDIT: Makes me wonder in the wake of this, they may nix Ichabod and the Ol' wreck of '82 from the script since this is roughly where this happened.

Definitely seems appropriate to nix that bit for a while if not permanently.

Prayers that everyone is able to recover quickly and that no one suffers long term injuries.


Geeze this has been a rough year for SDC…. Fire, death of the citizen,  and now this.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: History Buff on October 26, 2022, 09:06:26 PM
It should be interesting to find out the cause.  Can anyone answer why the cars would come unattached from the wheels?
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: sdcfan88 on October 26, 2022, 09:11:57 PM
Pretty bad stuff. https://www.facebook.com/100062527059929/videos/1469541250223467/

EDIT: Makes me wonder in the wake of this, they may nix Ichabod and the Ol' wreck of '82 from the script since this is roughly where this happened.

Definitely seems appropriate to nix that bit for a while if not permanently.

Prayers that everyone is able to recover quickly and that no one suffers long term injuries.


Geeze this has been a rough year for SDC…. Fire, death of the citizen,  and now this.

Oh yeah and the brakes comment, that definitely didn't age well on this ride today.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: legoerosion on October 26, 2022, 09:15:00 PM
It should be interesting to find out the cause.  Can anyone answer why the cars would come unattached from the wheels?

That’s how all bogies are attached to the car with any train. They rest on top of the bogies and the bogies test on top of the wheels
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: KBCraig on October 26, 2022, 10:21:00 PM
https://www.ozarksfirst.com/local-news/local-news-local-news/heavy-emergency-responder-presence-at-silver-dollar-city/
Here's a link to Ozarks First with a picture

"...and passengers had to smash the windows to climb out."

Windows? What windows?
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: sdcfan88 on October 26, 2022, 10:27:40 PM
Another article: https://www.koamnewsnow.com/silver-dollar-city-trail-derails-cars-topple/pic/4817885/

This incident also showed up on all the local TV news all the way down here in NW Arkansas.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: legoerosion on October 26, 2022, 10:29:55 PM
https://www.ozarksfirst.com/local-news/local-news-local-news/heavy-emergency-responder-presence-at-silver-dollar-city/
Here's a link to Ozarks First with a picture

"...and passengers had to smash the windows to climb out."

Windows? What windows?

Probably the ones on the front and back of the passenger cars, but they also said the wheels were made of rubber so I don’t really know what they’re smoking.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Praire Wind on October 27, 2022, 05:57:28 AM
Hoping to hear that all who were injured will make a complete recovery. 


The train can be - and no doubt will be - repaired, and back to operations, hopefully soon for all of us who love SDC so.



Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Jesus4me on October 27, 2022, 07:09:28 AM
The train probably will be closed for a while until an investigation for the cause is done. They also have to remove the train and repair it. It could be down the rest of the year.  :'(
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: sanddunerider on October 27, 2022, 08:20:01 AM
There will be an investigation,

really hope it doesnt stop train from the Christmas Run,
Seeing Granpa and hearing the story is one of the best thing about SDC Christmas.
Prayers to all involved, Hopefull the "Bad" cases, arent really that bad.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: mg on October 27, 2022, 08:36:35 AM
They do have more than one train, assuming that they are cleared to begin operations again. Managing the line with only one train during Christmas could be a real challenge though.

*Not saying that they will/should reopen the train this season even if cleared to. Jus stating that there is more than one train.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: pintrader on October 27, 2022, 09:13:02 AM
They do have more than one train, so assuming that they are cleared to begin operations again, there would be hope for the train during Christmas. Managing the line with only one train during Christmas could be a real challenge though.

I would think it highly unlikely the train would be in service anymore this year.  This is a pretty major incident to say the least and extremely lucky it wasn't worse.  Investigating these incidents seem to take a while.  They do have more than one train but how many passenger cars are available?  Also there is probably going to be a pretty large hesitancy to get back on the train after an accident like this.  I know it would be in the back of my mind.  Surely this won't be an excuse to completely get rid of it......at least I hope not.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: HumphreyHawk on October 27, 2022, 09:29:04 AM
They do have more than one train, so assuming that they are cleared to begin operations again, there would be hope for the train during Christmas. Managing the line with only one train during Christmas could be a real challenge though.

You are joking right?  You think anyone will want to ride it again?  I expect it to be closed the rest of the year and I don't think it will reopen until they get new cars and do some PR and finish an investigation to show it is safe.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: HumphreyHawk on October 27, 2022, 09:48:54 AM
I really hope all are ok.

Way too early thoughts on the situation: (100% could be wrong)
- Looks from the videos took that one of the cars separated from there bogie making it off center from the track along the curve and pulling over cars with it.  I thought I saw multiple bogies still on the track which is a bit confusing.
- I'm going to predict this was 'caused' by a structure failure of a passenger car. 
- I'm assume the train was not going very fast when it happened maybe even closed to stopped
- This couldve been a lot worse injury wise
- I doubt the train runs again without either refurbished passenger cars or new ones. 
- Terrible PR hit for SDC - Probably it's most rode attraction and now everyone will question if its safe and if the park is safe :(

Side Note - Ive heard that train has had a history of robberies....maybe they should investigate some of the folks who live out in the woods?
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: mg on October 27, 2022, 09:54:20 AM
You are joking right?  You think anyone will want to ride it again?  I expect it to be closed the rest of the year and I don't think it will reopen until they get new cars and do some PR and finish an investigation to show it is safe.

Wasn't saying that I think the it will/should reopen this year. Just stating that there are multiple trains.

Assuming that it doesn't reopen this year, it would be great if they could have Grandpa tell the Christmas story somewhere else to keep that part of SDC Christmas traditions going.

*Edited my original post to make my stance more clear.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: History Buff on October 27, 2022, 10:35:12 AM
People tend to "get over" the fear of things like this, thinking "what are the odds of it happening again."  There have been train accidents and derailings (and I don't think this is a derailing as much as a structural failure) many times.  As long as the accident is swept up and the proper repairs are made (likely minimal, if any, damage to the rails themselves), folks will get back on that train.

After all, we're still riding passenger planes in spite of crashes that take lives.  We're still driving 80 mph on the highway in spite of daily accidents that seriously injure or take lives.  We still eat and take medicine...

I'm guessing they can investigate this pretty quickly, make the necessary repairs or corrections and get it up and running as if nothing happened.  I'm also guessing that the cause of the problem will be pretty easy to identify.  I understand they may have to await clearance from the authorities and the legal team, but they're also going to want to eat those visitors and not add them to the already bloated crowds during the Christmas festival.  We shall see.

I would even welcome just being able to hike the tracks instead of riding the train.  That would be a peaceful diversion from the crowds in the City.  I would even be willing to tell appropriate stories along the way if anyone would care to join me.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: shavethewhales on October 27, 2022, 10:57:55 AM
The train has operated without any issues like this that I have ever heard of since the 1960's. I will be very curious to hear what the actual cause was. The tracks are quite old and see a fair bit of use. I'm sure they do maintenance and they have replaced sections before, but the section here looks pretty rough.

Our thoughts are with the affected, but it's hard not to note how bad this is for the city. The train is still one of the biggest attractions and one of the high capacity rides that everyone can do together. It's absence will be felt during Christmas.

I don't doubt that people will have no issue jumping back on when it re-opens. Train derailments have happened throughout history and they are still popular. Ideally after this incident it will be safer than ever.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Pudgy Jones on October 27, 2022, 10:59:08 AM
The train isn't a "must ride" for me, but the mere presence of it adds so much to the atmosphere. I am headed to the park this weekend, and the thought of not hearing the whistle and seeing the train go by breaks my heart. I can't imagine SDC without it. Hopefully it's back up and running again in 2023.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: HumphreyHawk on October 27, 2022, 11:30:14 AM
You are joking right?  You think anyone will want to ride it again?  I expect it to be closed the rest of the year and I don't think it will reopen until they get new cars and do some PR and finish an investigation to show it is safe.

Wasn't saying that I think the it will/should reopen this year. Just stating that there are multiple trains.

Assuming that it doesn't reopen this year, it would be great if they could have Grandpa tell the Christmas story somewhere else to keep that part of SDC Christmas traditions going.

*Edited my original post to make my stance more clear.

Understand....and I'll clarify too.  I don't think Everyone will be scared to ride again....nor do I think it is impossible for it to reopen by year end.  I just doubt it will reopen this year.  Have to wait and see about the damage and what it will take to ensure all is safe again. 

I'm sure the train will have plenty of riders when it opens but there will be plenty also who will ok not going on it again.

I also wondered if there could be some type of access back to the woods to do the Santa experience by foot.  Maybe use the amphitheater this year for it.....I'm sure they are thinking through ideas right now just in case.

Christmas will be tough without the train running....hundreds on the train and/or waiting for the train was will now have to find other things to do when the park is already packed (and sometimes many rides down when it's cold).
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: pintrader on October 27, 2022, 11:50:06 AM
I don't think I have ever rode the train and listened to all the bangs, clangs, moans, groans, creaks and not wondered what in the bleep is going on under there.  Yes people will get right back on but there will be people that say "that train had an accident, not me".  Just the nature of the beast.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Jesus4me on October 27, 2022, 02:08:09 PM
It is all speculation about the train, if it was THAT train or the trains in general nobody knows. It's more dangerous to drive on the interstate than ride a slow-moving train. Maybe they will debut a new ride in 2023, a New Train? What stinks is that the New Christmas shows are terrible and now the Train may not run for the Old Time Christmas. Hopefully they run the working train and all the chickens can watch it.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: mg on October 27, 2022, 02:48:17 PM
Updated statement from SDC: silverdollarcity.com/media-update

• 160 guests on the train (train has a max of 250).
• 6 guests + 1 employee were transported to a medical facility. All but 1 have been released.
• No life threatening injuries have been reported.
• SDC's CARE team went to the hospital to offer support to guests and family members.
• MO State Fire Marshall's office is conducting an investigation.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Lampie on October 27, 2022, 02:52:41 PM
For me personally, I won’t ride again until they have a very transparent announcement of what went wrong, what they are doing to prevent it from happening again(and that plan being believable to prevent it), and what other safety enhancements they are adding(seatbelts maybe?)

It seems pretty unlikely to reopen this year, I’d expect an investigation to take at a bare minimum 6-8 weeks but likely more. I do hope they come up with a way to have story time with grandpa somewhere. I think The dockside theater would be a good place for that, but I don’t remember what they usually have there at Christmas.

I do wonder if the passenger cars are just too wide for the narrow gage railway that they have.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: SDC#1fan on October 27, 2022, 02:59:35 PM
Just to be clear the bogies “trucks” still sitting on the tracks isn’t an odd thing at a derailment. Generally the cars are not physically secured to the trucks just as the axes aren’t physically secured to the truck. If you lift the car the truck stays on the track, if you lift the truck the axes stay on the track. Gravity holds it all together on pins so if it tips over there is a good possibility the trucks are going to stay put.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: legoerosion on October 27, 2022, 04:15:25 PM
For me personally, I won’t ride again until they have a very transparent announcement of what went wrong, what they are doing to prevent it from happening again(and that plan being believable to prevent it), and what other safety enhancements they are adding(seatbelts maybe?)

It seems pretty unlikely to reopen this year, I’d expect an investigation to take at a bare minimum 6-8 weeks but likely more. I do hope they come up with a way to have story time with grandpa somewhere. I think The dockside theater would be a good place for that, but I don’t remember what they usually have there at Christmas.

I do wonder if the passenger cars are just too wide for the narrow gage railway that they have.
More room for us who enjoy it, then. Freak accidents happen sometimes. The passenger cars aren’t too wide at all, they’ve been running for 60 years without issue and many years before that on other narrow gauge railroads.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: cowboy on October 27, 2022, 05:23:48 PM
They will find the cause and they will address the issue. SDC cannot afford another "freak" accident to occur and turn out worse than this accident.

They will not reopen the ride until a cause is determined, and a "fix" is made. We'll need to have patience and just let the process work itself though.

Jay
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Okiebenz on October 27, 2022, 06:28:17 PM
Just wait until the lawsuits start rolling in.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: sdcfan88 on October 27, 2022, 06:53:32 PM
Well it did officially make an appearance on National News this evening. Pretty good black eye for SDC publicity going into Christmas. Also it's interesting to note these were the newer generation cars that broke apart and derailed. I wonder too if there was an issue with the Tinder Car on 504 since it was also among those that derailed. Lots of possibilities to investigate.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: sanddunerider on October 28, 2022, 07:24:35 AM

You are joking right?  You think anyone will want to ride it again?  I expect it to be closed the rest of the year and I don't think it will reopen until they get new cars and do some PR and finish an investigation to show it is safe.

I for one, will be on it, IF it is running my next trip.
Perfect example of   
 "If it has T*** or Tires, you goin to have problems with it"
It was an accident,
find out the truth why,
repair the problem, move on.

Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: chittlins on October 28, 2022, 09:24:13 AM
Casey Jones didn't watch his speed
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: pintrader on October 28, 2022, 09:26:12 AM
It might be a while until they repair the problem and move on the way it sounds. The state's preliminary investigation wrapped up without determining what caused it.   The state's Amusement Ride Safety Unit will return to the park at a later time to continue that investigation with an engineering firm.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: History Buff on October 28, 2022, 11:10:07 AM
It might be a while until they repair the problem and move on the way it sounds. The state's preliminary investigation wrapped up without determining what caused it.   The state's Amusement Ride Safety Unit will return to the park at a later time to continue that investigation with an engineering firm.

Still, there is also some political leverage to be had, I'm sure.  The Herchends bring lots of buckaroos to the local and state coffers, and I'm sure they have a certain amount of political clout in Jefferson City.  It's not Halloween yet, and while I'm certain things have to go through the process, which could take some time, I also understand that strings can be pulled.  That doesn't mean they'll go through shortcuts to do the job right, but we may be surprised at how quickly things can be done.  Of course, with all the sticky government red tape, things could also go the other direction.  We shall see.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: pintrader on October 28, 2022, 11:33:18 AM
I would think (don't know) the Herschends would want things looked at fairly well, just in case something might fall back on them.  The way people are today there could be a few lawsuits waiting in the wings depending on the findings and injuries that might occur over time.  Not sure but the Herschends are still looking at some lawsuits regarding Ride The Ducks which may or may not fall back on them.  Like you say "We shall See".
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: KevinLong on October 28, 2022, 12:06:17 PM
SDC has never been caviler in when it comes to park or ride safety. I am also nearly 100% sure they are insured for this and any possible accident. Lawsuits will be settled. Cause will be determined. The train will be repaired and it will be as safe if not safer than ever.

ACCIDENTS are accidents, unexpected things happen. Considering the literally hundred of thousands of miles in train circuits that have been made over the years. the train is actually very safe.

They will open the train when it is safe to do so, and I have no problem taking their word for it being safe.

my two cents...

Kevin
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: SDCisHome on October 28, 2022, 06:42:10 PM
Not sure but the Herschends are still looking at some lawsuits regarding Ride The Ducks which may or may not fall back on them.  Like you say "We shall See".

Herschend Family Entertainment was not the owner of Ride the Ducks at the time of that incident in 2018. Ripley Entertainment out of Orlando were the owners of Ride the Ducks in Branson at that time. Herschend sold Ride the Ducks in 2012.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: pintrader on October 28, 2022, 07:37:45 PM
Herschend Family Entertainment was not the owner of Ride the Ducks at the time of that incident in 2018. Ripley Entertainment out of Orlando were the owners of Ride the Ducks in Branson at that time. Herschend sold Ride the Ducks in 2012.

That is true, they were not the owners at the time of incident but they were part of a lawsuit alleging they failed to make safety improvements that would have prevented the loss of lives.  As far as I know some of these have been dropped and possibly all with the option of the state recharging......really not sure.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Coaster on October 30, 2022, 10:53:35 AM
Just a really unfortunate incident for the city. A lot of negative publicity from the park this past year. I’m thankful that it sounds like no one was seriously injured. I fully expect the train to be out of commission for the Christmas season, as it probably should be for the investigation to be completed. It is in the park’s best interest as well to use the offseason to make any repairs which may be necessary.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: History Buff on October 31, 2022, 11:00:28 AM
At the same time, SDC usually gets pretty good publicity for their response to events like this.  The TnT accident was an employee and a different circumstance.  The train derailment has garnered somewhat of a positive response in some circles because those circles trust the company to be honest and caring.  Their reputation remains intact in this, even when they or their representative employees might be at fault or negligent.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: dkparks on November 06, 2022, 11:44:37 AM
Notice that the train is no longer listed in the Rides and Attractions section of the SDC official website:

https://www.silverdollarcity.com/theme-park/attractions/rides/
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Preachin_Bill on November 06, 2022, 12:17:48 PM
Not only would I ride the train right now, but I’d bring my kids.
Ot’d be great.
The wreck was a fluke thing.
That train has had a lot of miles on it with no issues.
I have full faith in sdc fixing it, and doing it quick.
If people dont want to ride, then dont.
Whatever happened to personal responsibility?
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: shavethewhales on November 07, 2022, 09:08:54 AM
Yeah it's going to be awhile. Let's hope we have a train next spring.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: runner1960 on November 07, 2022, 02:35:03 PM
Not only would I ride the train right now, but I’d bring my kids.
Ot’d be great.
The wreck was a fluke thing.
That train has had a lot of miles on it with no issues.
I have full faith in sdc fixing it, and doing it quick.
If people dont want to ride, then dont.
Whatever happened to personal responsibility?

Not sure you how you equate personal responsability with negligance or improper maintenance or lack of safety standards ? Personal responsibility goes out the window when things are not your fault. Are you saying the people on the train were responsible ?

That being said I will ride it again after the cause is found and corrected. Hopefully soon but whatever it takes to make it safe.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Jesus4me on November 07, 2022, 06:20:22 PM
Was at the Park this weekend and off the record some of the employees said they thought the train would open nu Thanksgiving.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Jesus4me on November 11, 2022, 07:36:04 PM
The Park is setting up a temporary location for the Story of Christmas told by Grandfather at the Tom & Hucks Stage near the RiverBlast Ride in the coming week per the train employees. This probably means the train will be a while but at least the Christmas story survives.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Parson B Ready on November 15, 2022, 11:29:42 AM
I too have heard the rumor about putting "grandpa" on the the Tom and Huck stage.  But in the meantime, you can sometimes find "grandpa" sitting on the bench in front of the train depot (or one of the conductors standing nearby); and he is happy to tell you the Christmas story if you ask him. I got to hear it myself this past Sunday.  It was really special even without the lights and music.

Also, I heard that the investigation into the train accident has been completed, but they haven't released the results to the public yet.  So, hopefully we will hear something soon.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: dkparks on November 25, 2022, 09:51:47 AM
I have a bad feeling the cause is going to be related specifically to 504. Not that there is a problem with the engine but simply the forces on the cars being a little different due to the tender causing the string lining that happened to the cars.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: palallin on November 29, 2022, 04:58:57 PM
SDC's 1st engine had a tender.  Steam engines with tenders have been pulling trains for almost 200 years.  Blaming the wreck on the engine for having a tender will indicate incompetence among the investigators.


Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Swoosh on November 29, 2022, 09:10:45 PM
The train will not return this season
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: HumphreyHawk on December 08, 2022, 02:48:00 PM
Any update on the train?
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: sdcfan88 on December 08, 2022, 05:09:35 PM
Any update on the train?

As Swoosh mentioned the Train will not operate for the rest of the season. These investigations will take time still. The park then also has to take steps so ensure this will not be likely to happen again.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: cowboy on December 09, 2022, 10:41:11 AM
I'm sure SDC will also take this time to do any other work they need to do on the RR, including cleaning up the old wreck site, etc.

Jay
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: pintrader on December 09, 2022, 01:39:03 PM
I'm sure SDC will also take this time to do any other work they need to do on the RR, including cleaning up the old wreck site, etc.

Jay

Wouldn't all investigations (or most) need to be completed before cleanup?  Of course maybe enough have been completed to determine cause that cleanup could begin.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Trevlyn on December 16, 2022, 06:38:01 PM
The wreck site is already cleaned up. They silently brought the train back to the roundhouse, and everything looks to be repaired from guest POV. There is also new rail visible on the side of the roundhouse. The new track and investigation results are likely the only thing holding them back now.

I believe the steam train M&C are taking this time to rebuild and renovate everything they can while the train isn't running. Work continues machining new parts for #76 (getting some big work done on the bottom half of the engine). There are also many other projects for these 80+ year-old steam engines.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Swoosh on December 16, 2022, 10:07:44 PM
I'm sure SDC will also take this time to do any other work they need to do on the RR, including cleaning up the old wreck site, etc.

Jay

Wouldn't all investigations (or most) need to be completed before cleanup?  Of course maybe enough have been completed to determine cause that cleanup could begin.

The investigation has already been completed.  The park will announce (if they do) when they are ready.  I’m sure if you’re really interested it probably can be found online by the department who conducted the investigation
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Kjbutter on February 16, 2023, 09:36:22 AM
I haven’t been following closely but is there any news on the status of the train incident and whether it will run “normally “ this season
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Lampie on February 16, 2023, 10:05:00 AM
I haven’t seen any official statements, but they did have a couple train positions they were hiring for in early February, so I’m taking that as good news.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: shavethewhales on February 16, 2023, 02:00:28 PM
I expect it to be open for spring break. I don't have any inside knowledge or anything, but without any news to the contrary that seems like what I would be gunning for if I was in charge. I don't know the status of any lawsuits or investigations that would hold things up. Last I heard SDC was actually cleared of wrong doing in some sort of investigation, indicating that the accident was likely caused by some sort of unforeseen issue such as a branch on the tracks or a sinkhole - not outright negligence. Of course there will still be civil suits. 
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: pintrader on February 16, 2023, 03:15:12 PM
The only thing that seems a little odd is it is not listed on the website under Rides & Attractions.  Unless I am overlooking something.  If they were expecting it to be running in about a month you at least think it would be mentioned.  Maybe everything is not quite as clear as it appears.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Kjbutter on February 16, 2023, 08:40:47 PM
Did they ever determine the cause of the derailment. I was speculating that possibly a bunch of passengers were rocking one of the cars and caused the accident. What is everyone else thinking?
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: pintrader on February 17, 2023, 07:43:06 AM
I don't believe they have made public the cause of the derailment.  I guess anything is possible but I don't think passengers could get near the leverage needed to rock it off the tracks.  I would also guess that it was just wear & tear on certain areas & parts of the under carriage that caused the derailment.   

Like how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop......the world may never know!
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Jesus4me on February 21, 2023, 09:19:27 PM

The train is not listed on the rides and attractions list on the website.

https://www.silverdollarcity.com/theme-park/attractions/rides/



Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: KBCraig on February 22, 2023, 05:55:29 PM
"Please note: The Frisco Silver Dollar Line Steam Train is temporarily closed."

https://www.silverdollarcity.com/theme-park/attractions/rides/frisco-silver-dollar-line-steam-train/
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: shavethewhales on February 23, 2023, 10:04:22 AM
Yeah, no news is bad news. Nothing to go off of at this point. I haven't been able to find any reports, lawsuits, or anything on the web about it yet. I can imagine any number of scenarios going on behind the scenes. I'm sure the park is doing what they can to get it open again, but lawyers like to take their time.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Swoosh on February 23, 2023, 11:21:26 PM
Sections of track are in the process of being replaced
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: palallin on February 24, 2023, 08:03:20 AM
Sections of track are in the process of being replaced

Uninformed speculation to the contrary, track is most likely culprit.  A soft spot under the ballast, a few rotten ties, spreading of the rails on the curve.  People looking for spectacular causes are likely to be disappointed.  Simple things like these generally end up being the cause.  SDC doesn't enjoy teh sophisticated methods Class I RRs use to detect these things, and THEY DON"T NEED THEM.  Speeds are so low as to already qualify under the strictest kinds of slow orders.  Loads are laughably small in relation to what real narrow gauge mining roads carried.  The equipment is, the gag spiel notwithstanding, as up-to-date as can be expected.

The simple fact is, the excrement sometimes impacts the rotary air circulation device through no fault.  A pox on all ambulance chasers and their jackdaw clients!  And, no, had my family been on that train, we would not being suing or joining in any other suit.  it is purely greed, and the tort laws in this country need serious and sweeping reform.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: shavethewhales on February 24, 2023, 08:40:08 AM
^Yeah... here's the thing though, the train freaking tipped over. People got hurt. It could have been much worse. There were babies on board. The speeds are low and the loads are small, but they are more precious than what a freight train carries.

We still don't know the exact cause, but they absolutely do need to use whatever sophisticated methods they can to inspect the track on a regular basis. They do it with the roller coasters. I understand your viewpoint as an engineer and I often hate on lawyers myself, but when crap like this happens you have to get real. It's a serious screw up if it was caused by anything that could have been prevented, which it almost certainly was.

The good news is that the Frisco will be extremely safe going forward I'm sure.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: pintrader on February 24, 2023, 09:06:45 AM
I know I have been there early in the mornings and have seen workers walking the track.  I would presume looking for things out of the ordinary on the track or with the track.  How often this is done I have no idea but presumed it was done daily or at least weekly.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Lampie on February 28, 2023, 09:49:10 AM
Official update, it’s not going to be open on opening day.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: shavethewhales on February 28, 2023, 10:08:21 AM
Good to know, thanks for posting that. Sure hope they can figure it out by May.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: JJH on February 28, 2023, 10:12:47 AM
I guess I am surprised that there was not more of a change in the operational leadership at the park.  Maybe there is and we don't know.  2022 had some serious leadership issues.  Fire during operations, the train derailment with people on board, and the death of an employee.  All of these were preventable, and each of them was not prevented.    We like to talk about the theme going to heck and destroying the park, but a history of unsafe practices will end the park.  I hope that the management has made operational changes and does not believe that these were one-off accidents. 
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: legoerosion on February 28, 2023, 10:51:16 AM
I guess I am surprised that there was not more of a change in the operational leadership at the park.  Maybe there is and we don't know.  2022 had some serious leadership issues.  Fire during operations, the train derailment with people on board, and the death of an employee.  All of these were preventable, and each of them was not prevented.    We like to talk about the theme going to heck and destroying the park, but a history of unsafe practices will end the park.  I hope that the management has made operational changes and does not believe that these were one-off accidents.

These were one-off accidents, speaking as an employee during those incidents.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: mg on February 28, 2023, 11:40:53 AM
2022 had some serious leadership issues.  Fire during operations...

The fire was in 2021, not 2022 and it happened before the full park was open to guests.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: JJH on February 28, 2023, 12:18:29 PM
I stand corrected 2021, park not fully open.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: sdcfan88 on February 28, 2023, 12:26:42 PM
Regardless it's still concerning to see all these mishaps over the past three years. This park was once known for its stellar safety record and operations. Can't help but think corner cutting has been involved lately. The only other notable incidents at the park that I can recall is the guy who was killed in FITH and the incidents where people fell into Lake Silver.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: shavethewhales on February 28, 2023, 01:27:20 PM
Are you guys aware of how understaffed the park has been the last few years? They have a skeleton crew everywhere. According to the rumor mill they barely had anyone to run the train around the time of the incident and many of them were new to the job. Lot of quick cross training going on around the park as they scramble to have enough people to keep basic things open.

You talk about making management/staff changes... well, who do you change to?
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: palallin on March 01, 2023, 07:06:59 AM
Shave is dead on:  ya gotta operate with who you have or close down.

Would that I were retired!  I move there and take a sunset job.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: JJH on March 04, 2023, 12:40:19 PM
It might be true that understaffing and quick training is the cause of the incidents.  It does make sense. Staffing and training are the responsibility of management/leadership.  If they can not perform these jobs effectively there is no reason to believe that further "one-off" incidences will not keep occurring.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Trevlyn on March 04, 2023, 04:24:38 PM
While the cause of the train incident is undisclosed, it has been confirmed that it is at the fault of no SDC employee. I am close with the train crew, and they are so passionate in their job that they wouldn't have let any of this happen. The maintenance foreman also declared it is nobody in the train maintenance crew's fault. It is extremely hard to wreck SDC's train unless you are going extremely fast, and considering the train settled on the inside of the curve, speed was not a factor.
I believe it had to do with a kingpin connecting a truck to the frame of Car no. 3. In an on-ride POV filmed 4 hours prior to the wreck, you can see the car is riding a lot rougher than the others, especially on the curve it derailed.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: legoerosion on March 05, 2023, 10:02:54 AM
While the cause of the train incident is undisclosed, it has been confirmed that it is at the fault of no SDC employee. I am close with the train crew, and they are so passionate in their job that they wouldn't have let any of this happen. The maintenance foreman also declared it is nobody in the train maintenance crew's fault. It is extremely hard to wreck SDC's train unless you are going extremely fast, and considering the train settled on the inside of the curve, speed was not a factor.
I believe it had to do with a kingpin connecting a truck to the frame of Car no. 3. In an on-ride POV filmed 4 hours prior to the wreck, you can see the car is riding a lot rougher than the others, especially on the curve it derailed.

They won’t listen, it doesn’t fit their narrative of “SDC is going downhill and they don’t care!”

Freak accidents happen, and can happen more than once in a span of a year. The fire was a simple grease fire that got out of control too quickly for anyone to even do anything. The worker on TNT, bless his soul, died because of his own error, not the parks or any other employees. And like you said just said with the train. But hey, SDC bad!
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Duelist on March 05, 2023, 10:31:13 AM
^ I and my family feel perfectly safe at SDC and will continue to do so.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: JJH on March 06, 2023, 09:34:16 AM
Well since I am the OP, I will assume that I am the “They will not listen”.  I do not feel that this is an accurate description of my responses.  When corrected about the dates and details of the fire I acknowledged and thanked the poster.  When given information that short staffing and quick training may have been the cause or partial cause of the incidents I agreed and added my perspective.  I do not agree that these were freak accidents.  I believe that each could have been prevented.  I believe that the root cause of the incidents is a failure of the management/ leadership to provide adequate training, proper procedures, and continuous supervision if needed. 
I will add my perspective on each incidence since this seems to be a cause of concern.  In many cases, it does not differ too much from what has already been discussed.  The source of the fire was reported to be grease.  Commercial restaurants have procedures in place to use grease in a safe manner.  If these procedures are followed, I do not understand how a grease fire could have immediately become so out of control as to destroy three structures.  Either the procedures were not in place, or they were not followed. 
The train: it has been reported that the train was being operated in a safe manner, and it has been reported that maintenance personnel were not responsible and performed their jobs correctly.  There has been no report of any “act of god”, so I believe that leaves us only with a lack of correct inspection procedures. 
TNT: The employee was struck by the roller coaster and died of head trauma.  It has been put forth that this was entirely the cause of the employee.  I disagree.  The employee did obviously choose to be in the situation that cause the accident, but I do not believe the employee wanted to die.  There should have been training to tell the employee that this action could cause death, there could have been remote sensing for train speed, and there could have been physical barriers to entry.  SDC agreed to make changes to prevent these occurrences.  This death could have been prevented with proper training, physical barriers, and procedures.
I have brought up training and procedures several times.  These only work if enforced by management and leadership.
If this is interpreted as “SDC is going downhill” that is because these incidences caused a loss of three structures, the loss of the train for the rest of a season, with no specific date for return, and most importantly a loss of life.  Although I did not use the downhill language, I can see why someone would.
 As for the “and they don’t care”, well again not my language.  I thought that considering the seriousness of each of the incidences and their relative closeness in time, there may have been some talk of management or leadership shake-up in operations.  I also would have expected to hear more about improvements or changes in operations. 
I have tried to be respectful in my responses and posts.  My stance is that these incidences were preventable and this stance will not change until additional information is made available.  If this forum is not the proper place for discussions on serious incidents that occur at SDC, or if the moderator does not want this level of discussion I will refrain from commenting. 
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Okiebenz on March 06, 2023, 09:22:28 PM
At the end of the day, the buck stops with management.  I would assume more specifically Brad Thomas. 
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Lampie on March 06, 2023, 11:29:25 PM
JJH my thoughts are similar to yours, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.

There is not a labor shortage as much as their is a shortage of people willing to work at the rates SDC is paying, if they had significantly raised their hourly rates, they could have filled the open positions and been very selective about who was hired.

The 2022 season,I noticed several rides where pre-ride safety instructions weren’t given. I’m assuming that’s was related to short staffing and maybe they had people filling in from other areas of the park, but that should be written down in an operating manual for each attraction and someone operating the ride should know they have to read it. It raises questions of if the operator is skipping that step what other steps are they skipping, do they know how to respond if x happens? X being an abnormal condition but one that happens and needs to be responded to correctly for safe operations.

If you’re disciplined and making safety a top priority it’s very rare to have 3 freak accidents in a couple years. It’s not impossible but it’s rare.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: sdcfan88 on March 07, 2023, 04:10:29 AM
I have tried to be respectful in my responses and posts.  My stance is that these incidences were preventable and this stance will not change until additional information is made available.  If this forum is not the proper place for discussions on serious incidents that occur at SDC, or if the moderator does not want this level of discussion I will refrain from commenting.

I wouldn't think too much of it. Never let a minority voice trying to stir the pot and being OTT inhibit you from speaking your mind. You offered valid insights and concerns. A person or place cannot grow and improve without taking insight or criticism. This isn't TPR where they berate and ban you for making critical comments and not being a yes-man. (talking from personal experience)
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: palallin on March 07, 2023, 07:42:26 AM
JJH, you persist in insisting that all accidents can be prevented.  This assertion is not true.  All mechanical things fail.  It is not possible to predict the failures all the time no matter what inspection is done or how much management hounds the people who actually know what they are doing (i.e. the train crews).  Your assumption that the people have failed is not only unjustified, it is insulting to those dedicated crews. 
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: shavethewhales on March 07, 2023, 09:04:51 AM
No one wants to come down on the maintenance staff and we all understand they work hard and do what they can. However, the stakes are extremely high here. You can't just go "oh well, sh*t happens" when something like this happens. Kids could have died if things had been slightly different.

I mean, its like any other mass transport system. You don't just say "well, they tried their best" when an airplane falls out of the sky due to a faulty component.

There will be freak accidents and acts of god, but the scrutiny is always justified. Obviously SDC can't just shrug this off and hope the train doesn't tip over again while full of passengers.

It's not about denigrating the park, it's about noticing where things need to improve. Not all criticism comes from being snide. We obviously love the park or we wouldn't be posting on a fan forum.

Like I've said before, I'm sure the train will be the safest ride in the park when it re-opens.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: MCLFLN on March 07, 2023, 09:10:43 AM
I don't know why I am going to jump into this and arm chair quarterback...but here goes....

Safety is the responsibility of everyone working at the park - the leadership and the workers.

1.) Workers/All: See something - Say something (leadership cannot address issues they are not aware of)
2.) Leadership: Must look at every incident and every report from workers and take action to remediate however possible.

A proper culture fosters safety and does everything required to improve.

Obviously I have oversimplified the issues and safety is a struggle everywhere to varying degrees. (This is not just a Theme park issue)
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: JJH on March 07, 2023, 12:08:04 PM
Pallidin, I am sorry you interpreted my comments in the way you did, no malice was intended.  It has already been reported, and I repeated this in my response, that the team operating the train and the maintenance crew had been cleared of doing anything wrong.  Currently, I see no reason to believe this not to be true.

As for believing every accident (outside of Act of God) is preventable, yes absolutely, and I would hope everyone else would also believe this.  If the root cause of the train derailment is not found, then its recurrence cannot be prevented.  The state will not give an operating sticker, and OSHA will not allow employees to operate it.  So yeah, I really, really, really hope that this accident was preventable. All evidence shows this to be the case, the park is spending an enormous amount of time and money to get the train back.  They wouldn’t be doing this if they did not think it could be operated (and it can only be operated if the accident recurrence can be prevented).  The time this is taking points to a cause that was not a single simple maintenance issue, further evidence that the operation and train maintenance crews were performing their job correctly.  And to beat a dead horse, this most likely points to a failure of leadership and management for not having people that have the experience and knowledge on board to prevent the accident.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: mg on March 07, 2023, 03:50:59 PM
Probably shouldn't jump into this either. 😂

It has already been reported, and I repeated this in my response, that the team operating the train and the maintenance crew had been cleared of doing anything wrong.

And to beat a dead horse, this most likely points to a failure of leadership and management for not having people that have the experience and knowledge on board to prevent the accident.

I guess I'm confused why in one sentence you say that it appears as if all people were cleared of doing anything wrong, but then you say that leadership/management failed.

No way that leadership can be superior experts in everything happening on property; even more so than those that are hired to deal with it day in and day out. However, that seems to be what you are saying they should have been doing; how else would they know that they have 100% hired the expert that will catch every possible thing before it happens unless they themselves have that knowledge?

While yes, all accidents should be able to be prevented from reoccurring, there are for sure accidents that are just that; accidents that had no obvious or reasonable way to be prevented in the first place. Hindsight is 20/20.

Firing management/leadership is often the easy and quick way out and is something that some places do so that they can point to it publicly as "fixing" the problem, when in reality the problem is never truly addressed. I am happy that it doesn't appear to be what is happening here.

Unless there is proof that a warning or maintenance request was repeatedly ignored by higher ups, calling for their firing is just looking for a scapegoat to make it appear as if the company did something about it.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Okiebenz on March 07, 2023, 08:35:59 PM
Exactly.  Businesses that claim they can't get anyone to work should more accurately say they can't get anyone to work for the wage they want to pay.  I have seen some fast food type places around here crying about that when they are still trying to pay minimum wage or close to it.  I think even McD and places like that are paying $12-15 a hour which seems crazy for those types of jobs.  The way the prices are going up, places like SDC should be able to afford to pay quality employees.

And yes, the few times we were there last year, most, if not all, of the ride operations seemed to be lost and not sure what to do.  Seemed to take longer to get rides loaded and dispatched that in the past.  At least that is how it seemed the times we were there.

JJH my thoughts are similar to yours, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.

There is not a labor shortage as much as their is a shortage of people willing to work at the rates SDC is paying, if they had significantly raised their hourly rates, they could have filled the open positions and been very selective about who was hired.

The 2022 season,I noticed several rides where pre-ride safety instructions weren’t given. I’m assuming that’s was related to short staffing and maybe they had people filling in from other areas of the park, but that should be written down in an operating manual for each attraction and someone operating the ride should know they have to read it. It raises questions of if the operator is skipping that step what other steps are they skipping, do they know how to respond if x happens? X being an abnormal condition but one that happens and needs to be responded to correctly for safe operations.

If you’re disciplined and making safety a top priority it’s very rare to have 3 freak accidents in a couple years. It’s not impossible but it’s rare.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Jesus4me on March 08, 2023, 10:51:56 AM
Whats the hold up? I mean really.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: pintrader on March 08, 2023, 11:44:12 AM
Whats the hold up? I mean really.

I think that is when the train is stopped in the middle of the woods and Alfie & Ralphie try to steal the passengers valuables........just kidding!
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: sirwillow on March 09, 2023, 03:13:06 PM
Note that none of this is official, and frankly anything that anyone is saying here has to be taken as speculation until official reports are released as the park has not said anything as of yet, nor have official reports been released.

However, having worked on the train, and knowing the people, processes and procedures, along with some off the record discussions with people that do have information and experience, I hope that I can offer a little bit of an informed guess about the train situation. I should make clear that I am not speaking in any way, officially or unofficially, for the park, inspectors, employees, or anyone that has worked or currently works on the train at Silver Dollar City.

First, I don't believe, and I expect the reports to confirm, that the train derailment was not the fault of any of the train personal- engineers, inspectors, etc.  The work they do on the trains is meticulous- which I actually documented in a video I produced a couple of years back, and that includes daily track inspections.  Furthermore, I believe that they will be cleared of mechanical issues actually being the cause of the derailment (though I'm not sure on contributing to what happened).

For those that don't remember, the area a week before the derailment was in a rather strong drought condition.  It had been quite a while without rain. Then in the couple of days beforehand we had rain.  A lot of it.  Flood condition amounts of it.  Lots of rain on very dry ground on top of rock (e.g. Missouri) can soften the ground and make it shift in a way that is nearly undetectable, particularly on a hill similar to where the train derailed.

The train had run without issue several times that day, and the issue happened near the end of the day, which means it was a condition that grew over the course of the day until the point where it actually caused the accident.  They aren't checking that track after every trip, so if it's something that progressed, if there wasn't some sign of it they wouldn't have seen it.

I'm fairly convinced (and I'm waiting for the official reports to confirm it, which I'm fairly confident they will) that the cause was dry ground that had become saturated and then started slipping over the course of the day under the weight and strain of the operations that then caused the rails to displace just enough to cause the derailment.

That's something that is generally inspected for and worked on in the off season, as it's pretty much never an issue during the season.  As witnessed by 55 years of it operating without incident, as well as all of the numerous theme park trains that have also not had a derailment incident like this.

To blame this on a "sudden failure of management" is uninformed at the best, and comes from a lack of knowledge of park and/ or train operations.  And if that's you, I would suggest that you wait for official reports before speaking and speculating.  :-)

That said, I'll step back into the shadows and let those that think they know better continue to speak.  I've had other times where others tried to tell me how and what I and others did on the train, and I see some of that starting here again.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Coaster on March 11, 2023, 09:58:12 AM
Thanks for your well thought out and explained insights, sirwillow. I tend to agree with you and your contacts and your theory makes a lot of sense.

I just hope that the situation can be sorted out so the train can open and safely operate again.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: tmstephe on March 15, 2023, 08:59:28 AM
I just noticed that the SDC app list the train’s operating season as March 16 - October 29.  Hopefully that’s a good sign that it’s returning this week.    🤞
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Fury Fire Chief on March 15, 2023, 09:07:07 AM
It looks like those dates are 2022 dates unfortunately. 
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: sirwillow on March 16, 2023, 04:01:38 PM
Train crew had no ETA yesterday on when they might start operations
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: tmstephe on March 16, 2023, 08:14:11 PM
Train crew had no ETA yesterday on when they might start operations

I see what you’re saying now - the app doesn’t list a year but the web version does.  Sorry!

For what it’s worth, the conductor at the station today said “a couple of weeks”.  I also saw an employee walking the tracks picking up branches.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Cseeley on March 25, 2023, 08:22:39 PM
I've heard the train has started to test again, is this true?
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: shavethewhales on March 26, 2023, 11:51:44 AM
Yes, it was testing yesterday, apparently with senior staff on board. I guess they want to prove that it's safe enough that they trust it themselves? Rumors on FB of it opening the first week of April. No official confirmation yet.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: cowboy on March 26, 2023, 11:54:33 AM
Yes, there’s a lot of pictures and videos online. I attached one from the “You know you’re from SDC if…” Facebook page.

Jay

Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Swoosh on March 26, 2023, 08:51:49 PM
I’ve been told it opened this afternoon to guests
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: KevinLong on March 27, 2023, 06:36:18 PM
I am glad to see the train back so soon.
 As it is one of the few rides I can ride, I will not hesitate to ride it again.

Safer now than ever.

my two cents
Kevin
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Cseeley on March 27, 2023, 09:00:08 PM
Here is the only video I can find of the train running

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRvbn5Tt/
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: palallin on March 28, 2023, 07:05:42 AM
One great bit of news!

A significant piece of SDC returns!
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Zumwalta on March 30, 2023, 09:57:24 PM
504 was pulling coaches today. No jokes about brakes, old wreak, or engineer's abilities.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: sdcfan88 on March 30, 2023, 10:32:37 PM
504 was pulling coaches today. No jokes about brakes, old wreak, or engineer's abilities.

Yeah I was afraid of that, but I saw it coming.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: pintrader on March 31, 2023, 06:37:22 PM
Officials detail what caused train derailment.


https://www.ky3.com/2023/03/31/officials-detail-what-caused-train-derailment-silver-dollar-city-last-october/
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Okiebenz on March 31, 2023, 09:38:41 PM
So in other words, it was 100% negligence and lack of proper maintenance and standards on the part of the park
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: palallin on April 03, 2023, 09:09:31 AM
The State Fire Marshal’s Office gave Silver Dollar City the following recommendations:

    Develop track safety standards for a 2-foot narrow gage track, as there are no standards
    Install ties at a consistent spacing
    Measure side bearing at set intervals
    Correct and monitor the correct alignment of rails
    Ensure and monitor joint bolts for tightness
    Ensure weight is evenly distributed during passenger loading

I am unconvinc3ed that the Fire Marshal has any business whatever issuing any comments or recommendations on this issue, especially since they can't even spell the word gauge.   I do not expect the necessary level of familiarity from inspectors whose job is in an entirely different field.

There ARE standards or the train would have fallen off the tracks at the first run.   Gauge, for example, requires a certain level of standardization.  Rail alignment is partly a function of the fish plates, but level of precision required is not that high. 

One issue that can be pointed at the City is the fish plate bolts.  They do require monitoring and retightening at intervals. 

The passenger loading comment is, in Ozarkian, foolishment.  I have watched and ridden the train more than most, and I have never seen a randomly-loaded car that evinced dangerous imbalance. 





Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: sirwillow on April 03, 2023, 10:07:03 AM
The State Fire Marshal’s Office gave Silver Dollar City the following recommendations:

    Develop track safety standards for a 2-foot narrow gage track, as there are no standards
    Install ties at a consistent spacing
    Measure side bearing at set intervals
    Correct and monitor the correct alignment of rails
    Ensure and monitor joint bolts for tightness
    Ensure weight is evenly distributed during passenger loading

I am unconvinc3ed that the Fire Marshal has any business whatever issuing any comments or recommendations on this issue, especially since they can't even spell the word gauge.   I do not expect the necessary level of familiarity from inspectors whose job is in an entirely different field.

There ARE standards or the train would have fallen off the tracks at the first run.   Gauge, for example, requires a certain level of standardization.  Rail alignment is partly a function of the fish plates, but level of precision required is not that high. 

One issue that can be pointed at the City is the fish plate bolts.  They do require monitoring and retightening at intervals. 

The passenger loading comment is, in Ozarkian, foolishment.  I have watched and ridden the train more than most, and I have never seen a randomly-loaded car that evinced dangerous imbalance. 


I'm in general agreement with you.  It's hard to say if that misspelling is actually from the report or from a typo with the news media, as I can't seem to find an actual copy of the report, just the reporters saying what's in it.

The fish plate bolts are odd.  I've seen them check those every morning, and tighten them up.

I wish we could read the actual report, as I want to know what changed over the course of the day. There is mention of track misalignment and warping, but they wouldn't have started the day that way.  What caused it? What changed?

There's still information missing, and it may or may not be in the report.  And it's possible that the Marshall missed it completely since it's not something they normally deal with.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: legoerosion on April 03, 2023, 10:42:49 AM
Seems like they don’t know the actual cause and are just throwing out possible causes.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: pintrader on April 03, 2023, 01:36:35 PM
I am unconvinc3ed that the Fire Marshal has any business whatever issuing any comments or recommendations on this issue, especially since they can't even spell the word gauge.   I do not expect the necessary level of familiarity from inspectors whose job is in an entirely different field.

It appears that this is their job and really wouldn't make any sense to having them give recommendations and inspections if this wasn't the case.

https://dfs.dps.mo.gov/programs/amusement/
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: orangesandpeaches on April 03, 2023, 07:48:58 PM
As I recall, Missouri theme park code as it is written now isn't really that old, maybe within the last 20 years or so, and even then, it still isn't as strict as state codes on the coast.

 It does seem to smack as they were finding flaws and then added them to a list and started throwing darts at them so that they could fulfill their statutory obligations. When your vehicle goes all day making mostly right-hand turns, it goes without saying that the bearings are not going to wear at the same rate. Likewise, you could tighten the bolts every morning with a cheater bar and then come back at the end of the day and find more loose bolts due to the heating of the day. I would take a list of possible causes like that a little more seriously if they were coming from the likes of the NTSB.

I tend to agree, we did get some heavy rain. Anybody who has lived here awhile knows that when we get a lot of rain, a road somewhere is going to try to move. Sometimes it happens overnight, sometimes it takes weeks to show up. It makes a lot of sense that the road in this case may have been a railroad bed.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: KevinLong on April 04, 2023, 02:35:53 AM
One thing to consider is that in any accident the usual cause is almost always multiple things that coincide to create the conditions for the accident to occur.

Human error, loose bolts, one or two mph too fast. rail spread due to heat, sleepers loose, soggy rail bed, uneven loading, one bad bearing, the list can be virtually endless. All the same things may have happened countless times before, one at a time or in a different order and nothing happens, then they align and poof accident.

I think that is why the longer list of things to check. They probably cannot pinpoint one thing as the cause. and those corrections may help to reduce the recurrence.

While the park is responsible, I do not think it was gross negligence per se, just an unfortunate series of events.

my two cents.
Kevin 
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: pintrader on April 04, 2023, 09:52:01 AM
I think a person would have to come to the conclusion that the inspections and recommendations were satisfactory. It was not just The Office of the State Fire Marshal that was involved.  MoDOT and Wolf Railway Consulting were also involved it appears.  Wolf Railway Consulting is out of Atlanta and one of their areas of expertise is train derailment.  They have done something like 4,000 derailments across the globe and these derailments include heavy haul, passenger, light rail, narrow gauge, and even a couple underground coal mines.  I am sure Herschend Family Entertainment would want it to be went over with a fine-tooth comb because another similar accident in a short time could be a lot more serious in a lot of ways.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: KBCraig on April 04, 2023, 07:44:59 PM
If SDC wanted to add an in-theme period skit, there are quite a few folks around who still know how to roll a spike maul (the technique for driving spikes).

I use my old "snipe" skills for splitting wood, but it's the same technique.



Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Lampie on May 18, 2023, 07:36:43 AM
Kolr story on SDC limiting their cooperation initially with the state.

https://www.ozarksfirst.com/news/kolr-10-investigates/silver-dollar-city-objected-to-giving-investigators-train-crash-info/

There is supposed to be another report this evening focused on why the state’s annual inspection didn’t flag any issues.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Okiebenz on May 20, 2023, 09:09:33 PM
I find it very shady that SDC is refusing to cooperate and provide the information. 
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: KevinLong on May 20, 2023, 11:11:59 PM
its easy to speculate and create our own scenarios for what happened and why any info was delayed or "held Back".

it could be possible that it took a while to get all relevant data collected and put into a format that could be submitted. The fact is we don't know. Not everything is a conspiracy to hide things or put one over.

The five items they are requesting info on are pretty extensive, it is possible it could take a few month for SDC's investigators to create a report for the department of public safety. None of us were at that meeting and heard the objections as to why the info was not provided.

Evidently, they got what they wanted from SDC the train is now running again.

my two cents.
Kevin
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: pintrader on May 21, 2023, 08:20:41 AM
I find it very shady that SDC is refusing to cooperate and provide the information.

I agree and would have thought SDC would have wanted all the information to come out to show they were open and wanting to get to the bottom of the problem.  With a list of that many factors on the possible cause of derailment it sure looks like they are trying to sweep as much under the rug as possible and behind the scenes there were legal negotiations to keep the information private for whatever reason.  Doesn't look like it was just a matter of time to create a report since SDC objected to giving the information. 
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: shavethewhales on May 22, 2023, 08:07:33 AM
There's a lot of vagueness here, and media loves to exploit vagueness so people can project whatever they are subtly led to project on the situation. It's probably as simple as SDC wanting to have enough time to assess the situation, discuss with their lawyers, see how all the lawsuits are shaping up, etc. It's usually not advisable to run to the lawyers on the other side and dump all your info to be used against you. It might look "bad" to be "withholding" info, and that's the leverage they'll use against you, but it's always better to come prepared.

It's notable that the main guy in the article is someone who wasn't in a car that tipped, but found out that he injured his wrist the day after, "catching" people from the car. Smells like a cash grab... By the time he ends up in court he'll have a neck guard on too.  ::)
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: MCLFLN on May 25, 2023, 05:06:53 PM
Just saw this and it was taken down already.... no idea of validity as I couldn't check the comments.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: shavethewhales on May 25, 2023, 05:15:30 PM
Yup, I have seen several posts about it, but they are being clamped down on. Seems to be a small derailment. Considering things... It's a real bad look. Really makes you wonder what is going on. 60 years of smooth operations, and now they can't keep it on the tracks.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: legoerosion on May 25, 2023, 05:19:53 PM
It decoupled and stopped at the bottom of the hill, I wouldn’t call that a “derailment”.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Okiebenz on May 25, 2023, 06:22:06 PM
Who clamped down on what?   If somebody was there and witnessed it and decides to post about it, I am not sure how anybody could clamp down on it?  If it is SDC somehow getting these removed, that further indicates a very shady situation involving the train and lowers confidence in them as a whole.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: mg on May 25, 2023, 06:28:08 PM
They removed a post in their Facebook group. There was rampant speculation on the post and was just spreading rumors.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: mg on May 25, 2023, 07:26:04 PM
“ The incident happened around 4 p.m. Officials say the front wheels of car three on the train went off the track by about two inches. It caused cars two and three to separate. Park officials say new safety protocols worked as designed, stopping the train. It also kept all of the remaining cars upright.”

https://www.ky3.com/2023/05/25/silver-dollar-city-shuts-down-popular-steam-train-ride-following-incident-thursday/
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: legoerosion on May 25, 2023, 07:43:53 PM
“ The incident happened around 4 p.m. Officials say the front wheels of car three on the train went off the track by about two inches. It caused cars two and three to separate. Park officials say new safety protocols worked as designed, stopping the train. It also kept all of the remaining cars upright.”

https://www.ky3.com/2023/05/25/silver-dollar-city-shuts-down-popular-steam-train-ride-following-incident-thursday/

So track warp happened due to the extreme heat from the past few days, caused a truck to fall and everything worked upright? Why is this newsworthy?
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: sdcfan88 on May 25, 2023, 08:42:57 PM
I'm not one to tout conspiracies but I can't help but think this is sabotage and not gross incompetence. I never believed the fire was an accident either TBH
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: DianaGail on May 25, 2023, 09:18:08 PM
It’s barely been 80 for the last 3 weeks. Extreme heat didn’t cause this.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: legoerosion on May 25, 2023, 09:19:43 PM
It’s barely been 80 for the last 3 weeks. Extreme heat didn’t cause this.

Track warp can happen at 80 degrees.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Lampie on May 25, 2023, 10:10:40 PM
I'm not one to tout conspiracies but I can't help but think this is sabotage and not gross incompetence. I never believed the fire was an accident either TBH

So disgruntled employees, an insurance scam, a competitor, a PR play to get people to not be disappointed that they have to shutdown the railway??? Who benefits from your alleged conspiracy and who benefits?

The simplest explanation is usually the most likely and it sure seems the the fire and this are legit accidents, possibly enabled by weak maintenance/management practices.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Fergy328 on May 25, 2023, 11:30:04 PM
I'm not one to tout conspiracies but I can't help but think this is sabotage and not gross incompetence. I never believed the fire was an accident either TBH

Conspiracy wise it's probably less so sabotage and more so Herschend trying to cut costs where they can and doing less maintenance on rides. Which I hope like crazy isn't true because WOW what a can of worms that can be.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: sdcfan88 on May 26, 2023, 07:03:31 AM
Considering the proximity of these events within the past two years when stacked against their 60 years of operation and the park avoiding transparency with reports and deleting social media posts as mentioned a few posts back, if true, it does not look good on the park either way. Not to mention the employee getting killed on TNT. The latter was definitely gross incompetence and lack of communication between operators and maintenance staff. Regardless if its a guest or employee, one fatality is one too many and could have been prevented.
 
Until recently this park has enjoyed a stellar safety and maintenance record, but it could also be a cause for complacency and all these incidents happening are now exposing it.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: palallin on May 26, 2023, 07:06:06 AM
Look, folks, such accidents happen on real RRs fairly often.  The cause is that track takes a beating, and it is simply not possible to spot every potential weak point until it breaks.

It might be possible that a sun kink was involved, but the simple fact is that no amount of maintenance can prevent every failure of the track.  Deal with it.  FACT.  There is no conspiracy, no negligence, no scam, no PR, no sabotage:  a weak point just failed.  $#!t happens. Get over it, and go ride the train.  Or don't:  more room for me and mine.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Lampie on May 26, 2023, 07:56:54 AM
Look, folks, such accidents happen on real RRs fairly often.  The cause is that track takes a beating, and it is simply not possible to spot every potential weak point until it breaks.

It might be possible that a sun kink was involved, but the simple fact is that no amount of maintenance can prevent every failure of the track.  Deal with it.  FACT.  There is no conspiracy, no negligence, no scam, no PR, no sabotage:  a weak point just failed.  $#!t happens. Get over it, and go ride the train.  Or don't:  more room for me and mine.

Most of my comment was aimed at trying to understand the reasoning behind it being “sabatoge” as SDCfan88 said. I was not saying I believe it’s those things.

It’s okay to love a park and question why they have had several safety incidents the last couple of years. If you’re in a role that focuses on safety, “$#!t happens” is not an acceptable response to an incident. You dig in and find out exactly what went wrong and change your systems to address it and make sure it doesn’t happen again. When it come to the public, and reassuring them that you have addressed the problem that caused the incident being fully transparent is very helpful. Their comments notation last year and at the beginning of this year about what happened with the train was not fully transparent, that has left some lingering questions in the minds of many of the public if they did enough to address the cause of the problem.  I don’t want to get bogged down on this, I’ll let you tell me why I am wrong and I’ll move on.


What I do want to talk about is that they were very specific about the car coming off by 2 inches. I’m curious how they are being so specific. I’m assuming it’s related to a safety device that kicked in at that tolerance, but I’d love to know more about what exactly it is and how it functions. From what they’ve said it seems like somehow it detects that the car is 2” off the rail and then triggers the coupler to release and that possibly triggers the brake system.


Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: orangesandpeaches on May 26, 2023, 11:02:07 AM
Consider, social media and instant communication are fairly recent inventions compared to the history of theme parks.
Agent K's remarks trying to recruit Agent J sitting on the park bench in Men in Black come to mind when the flag of transparency is raised and illuminated 24/7 365.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: SDCisHome on May 26, 2023, 11:44:47 AM
From the pictures I saw...it looked like the incident yesterday happened with the "older" cars. The accident in October was with the "newer" cars, but engine 504 was pulling both trains when these rare occurrences happened. Not sure if there's any correlation there, just an observation.

In my opinion, the incident yesterday, even though a car "derailed" is no different than something happening with a roller coaster that has a mechanical issue and stops at the top of a lift hill and people have to evacuate. A ride had an issue which enacted safety systems to prevent disaster. Now, there is a huge difference in a roller coaster derailing and a train, but my point is that the safety systems that had been implemented worked and no one was hurt. Yes, it says one person was, but if you decline first aid, you're not really hurt. Although it is scary and when you hear "derailment" you fear the worst, whether that's an Amtrak train or the FSDL, but IMO SDC's new safety systems, that were recommended by the state of Missouri, worked and did their job. It shouldn't prevent you from ever riding it again, if that's how you fell, but to each their own. 

I would raise the question as to when the park just replaces the track of the entire layout. I know that takes time, money, etc...but maybe that's the next conclusion...idk, I'm not an expert, just a loving fan of the FSDL that wants to see it run another 60 years without injury, fear and bad PR, just like before.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: KevinLong on May 26, 2023, 04:37:42 PM
AGE is a cruel mistress --- especially on rides that have been operating for 50 years or more.

This is probably why you are seeing the replacement of fire in the hole. After a while all the maintenance in the world will not allow you continue using something - it just wears out or becomes unusable. Breaks and faults can occur where they never have before and with things that should never be a problem.

Maybe it's ground settling, erosion, decayed or loose rails. A lack of track ballast in some places. maybe its just time for a full re track and rebuilding of the railroad bed. I have absolutely no idea when that was last done, but maybe its time to do it. 50+ years of hot summers and freezing winters takes it's toll on everything even railroad tracks. A non moving part that should never really be the problem at these speeds and weights.

my two cents..
Kevin
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: mg on May 27, 2023, 06:58:01 AM
They have been given authorization to reopen the train.
Sounds like they won’t be using that set of cars though.

*Edit to add that other news stories that came out after this stated that it was a single defect with one part and that part was replaced.

https://www.ky3.com/2023/05/27/missouri-division-fire-safety-investigating-latest-silver-dollar-city-train-derailment-train-can-reopen/
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: pintrader on May 30, 2023, 07:54:12 AM
Train was up and running yesterday, so I guess the problem was easily solved  ::)
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Trevlyn on May 30, 2023, 06:46:05 PM
The cause was a rare manufacturing flaw in a wheel. All similar equipment has been removed from service, so guessing the old cars won't run for a while this year.
I believe SDC purchases their wheels, and does not make them themselves.
Title: Re: Train Crash?
Post by: Trevlyn on May 31, 2023, 10:06:28 AM
Something real quick i'll add to that, my source was Branson Tri-Lakes News.