SDCFans - The Unofficial Fan Site For Silver Dollar City
General Category => Other Parks => Topic started by: runner1960 on May 28, 2015, 03:01:21 PM
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With the addition of Harry Potter and the expansion of the parks long with new resort hotels Universal is getting to be a week long affair just like Disney. Now they are adding this.
http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2015/05/28/universal-orlando-to-open-new-waterpark-in-2017/
I had sworn off theme parks for awhile but maybe I will change my mind.
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I will say that Universal is definitely making great additions to their resort and I think Disney is falling behind recently. I have seen phase I of the Wizarding World at Islands of Adventure--and wow just amazing. The theming is incredible and the Forbidden Journey ride is the best dark ride I have ever rode. I would love to go back to see the addition they made at Universal Studios. I'm sure the waterpark they are adding will be amazing also.
I think Universal has really stepped up their game the last 5 or so years, and Disney has been just chugging along as usual. Granted, Disney's attendance hasn't dropped any but I'm just saying I think Universal has really been aggressive. I think Disney is going to counter very soon with Avatar at Animal Kingdom, and I would not be surprised to see an entire theme park dedicated to Star Wars in the future.
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I was pricing a trip for family to WDW for the past few years ( or trying). Prices go up and down at WDW and that I expect but as of the past few years they seem to be staying on the upper side of the scale. Full disclosure: I have been there several times as an adult but I am unable under the current pricing structure to justify another trip. There are few " deals " to WDW anymore and they are not keeping up with the Jonses. Possibly they have decided to leave the US behind as they move into Asia but there isnt much new to see, even with the addition of avitar I doubt that will justify a $3000 minimum trip. Lets face it it isnt just the $100 daily admission but the distance you have to travel and the hotels, meals, even if you stay out of the world you run into a high dollar trip. Consequently my visions have turned to Universal myself. I think WDW has some work to do to get me to open my pocket book and it isnt effected by anything Frozen or the Magic bands. They don't justify the expense for the experience. WDW is sitting on its laurels, they need a blockbuster. They need another Tower of Terror or Haunted Mansion, Pirates ....... They could build Mystic Manor in the Studios, Disney is in need of a blockbuster E ticket ride. The bottom line is they need to spend some money where we can SEE it. ATTRACT us to your parks. Do it fast cause Universal is looking better and better.
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I went in Feb. We chose the second week before the President's Day holiday rush, and there is a huge one. We rented DVC points to stay on site. A split stay, three nights at Wilderness Lodge and two at Anamal Kingdom with a Savanah view. Those Savanah view s pushed the renting of a studio the whole trip to just over a thousand. So, for around 200 a night, we got deluxe resorts at Disney. We didn't get the meal plan, we made use of the kitchenettes. I worked the math several times, there is really no discount to the dining plan and it's actually work to make sure your inflated price meal is actually adding up to the price you pre paid for. I giggle at notion of free dining plan offered as the price is baked into insane rack room rates for their hotels. Oh, Disney is doing surveys on tiered park admission. There's no discount for going during slow season, just gets more expensive for busier times of the year. There's two reasons for that. Make crowds more uniform over the year and to use it as a gimmick to sell more on resort stays. You know, stay with us and you get tickets at low season rates.Yada, yada, yada.
Universal is running loops around Disney on new attractions, Disney feels they don't need to and point to their gaudy numbers. But, the way Universal is expanding, it will no longer be a Disney and a day or two,at Universal or Seaworld. Universal will be a trip unto itself. I will be for us in 2017. That trip will be all Universal and SeaWorld/Busch. We maybe done with Disney outside of a day or two to catch what attraction it took them 4 years to build. For goodness sakes, it will by past 2020 before an new Star Wars attractions get done. Look at the Uni projects, Kong and Nintendo and more Marvel will all be done before Disney capitalizes on Star Wars more than they do now. We are eagerly watching the construction of Volcano Bay at Universal as well.
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I was pricing a trip for family to WDW for the past few years ( or trying). Prices go up and down at WDW and that I expect but as of the past few years they seem to be staying on the upper side of the scale. Full disclosure: I have been there several times as an adult but I am unable under the current pricing structure to justify another trip. There are few " deals " to WDW anymore and they are not keeping up with the Jonses. Possibly they have decided to leave the US behind as they move into Asia but there isnt much new to see, even with the addition of avitar I doubt that will justify a $3000 minimum trip. Lets face it it isnt just the $100 daily admission but the distance you have to travel and the hotels, meals, even if you stay out of the world you run into a high dollar trip. Consequently my visions have turned to Universal myself. I think WDW has some work to do to get me to open my pocket book and it isnt effected by anything Frozen or the Magic bands. They don't justify the expense for the experience. WDW is sitting on its laurels, they need a blockbuster. They need another Tower of Terror or Haunted Mansion, Pirates ....... They could build Mystic Manor in the Studios, Disney is in need of a blockbuster E ticket ride. The bottom line is they need to spend some money where we can SEE it. ATTRACT us to your parks. Do it fast cause Universal is looking better and better.
Right now Disney doesn't have to do anything drastic since they are setting attendance records. I have not been there since the new revamped Fantasyland opened but my sisters family was there last month and though it was amazing especially the 7 dwarfs Mine coaster. I will probably wait until Avatar opens and the studios finishes with the remodeling before I go back. FYI the admission price per day goes down drastically if you buy a 4 or 5 day pass.
But Universal is really stepping up to the plate also. Might make a winter trip there and try out their resorts.
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Right now Disney doesn't have to do anything drastic since they are setting attendance records.
I know they aer but I predict much like Wal Mart was once the giant and unshakable giant it is losing ground and definitely losing customer satisfaction ratings, lowest of all retailers last chart I saw. I would also point at McDonalds, they are same store losers for many quarters. People are not just settling for the same old thing any more. WDW is a different animal from DL so I will not refer to them but if you investigate you will see that California has done a better job of keeping their park fresh and new than the fat sister out in Florida. I talk to a lot of vacationing folks and WDW is not on the list of the repeaters like it used to be. I think WDW will soon sport a deer in the headlights " What Happened!" moment soon. I was delighted with WDW and a big fan but they have become complacent and lazy. Its a terrible shame because they could really blow everybody out of the water. I think Universal is smart and will reap the rewards of reinvestment. Universal is much cheaper by the day if you get in on one of the constant 3 days for the price of 2. It seems like a better deal and is calling me...possible this winter.
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You can not measure the Universal effect of the past couple of years at this point. You will see it 5 years out. I believe as Universal grows into a multiday park, with even more resort hotels, think 3 to 4 full days. It will no longer be an add on to a trip to Disney but a destination of it's own. Right Universal growth is hurting SeaWorld and Busch Garden as it demands that day or two away from Disney, but if what I think happens, will help as folks fill the back end of Universal trips with those or do the same like before on Disney trips as Universal is saved as a trip to itself. I bet you see Manby really go for a major kids ride section overhaul soon after the new Hyper is built to position SeaWorld better.
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I just have a hard time believing that Disney is ever going to be hurting. Where does every child in America want to go growing up--Disney. I know for certain that Universal's attendance will spike and they will reap the benefits of their labors. But their attendance will never be as high as Disney because well....it's Disney. I don't buy the comparison between Walmart and McDonald's. Also, WDW doesn't have to change as often as Disneyland does. For the most part, Disneyland is heavily attended from those in California and the surrounding states. No one from the eastern half of the country is going to travel to Disneyland instead of WDW. What I'm trying to say is WDW is more of a vacation destination and Disneyland is comparable to what SDC is to the Midwest.
I know I started this conversation but I believe the Disney corporation is one of the smartest around today. They have HUGE possibilities with acquiring Star Wars. If they do it right then this conversation will be reversed within the next five years. Right now however, Universal is really stepping up their game. And if I had to choose, I'd rather visit Universal right now.
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Disney is at it's pinnacle right now. Instead of adding new rides to spread the crowds out they are expanding existing rides instead. A third track to Toy Story and another screen to soaring. While Disney atis growing it's growth is in the single digits and those are large numbers but it is nearly the point where it's harder and harder to maintain that and that is where the Walmart comparison takes place. It's called the Law of Big Numbers. 2% growth for Walmart is a lot of money but the percentage is small and not impressive. It's at the point where it's more for the dividend than growth in the stock price. WDW had benefited greatly from a weak dollar that made it cheap to visit for those abroad. That's been changing as the Dollar has risen for over a year now and is within 11 cents of the Euro, gone are the days of 65 cents to the Euro. Who knows when South American finances go bad. I don't want to try to guess. If it wasn't for South Americans, it would have seemed a ghost town in all the parks outside of WDW when I was there in Feb. The lots at the hotels. we stayed where never more than half full. Sooner or later folks get tired of making dinner reservations 6 months out. Disney is taking spontaneity completely out of visiting there. That's a bad thing.
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I'm not sure exactly how much the WDW prices have gone up since I was there in 2012, but let me tell you -- it all has to do with what time of year you go. My roommate and I went in January, the week between the end of the marathon and the beginning of the cheerleader week (aka, the parks were at no higher than about 4-ish on the Touring Plans 0-10 crowd calendar). We stayed off-site the first night and the last night (both nights at the Holiday Inn Orlando SW, across from Old Town/Fun Spot). For the nights we stayed on WDW property, we stayed at the All-Star Sports Resort. I took advantage of their off-season promotions and got us a free meal plan with our stay.
The cost of our trip came out to about $900-ish a person - that's including airfare (we flew from and to the Branson airport), taxis, two nights at Holiday Inn, five nights at All-Star Sports, six days at the parks (one day each at DHS & Animal Kingdom, two days each at Magic Kingdom & Epcot), dinner in the Holiday Inn cafeteria on the night of our arrival, and the Disney meal plan was included free when we bought our ticket/room package for WDW.
Minus the $200-ish for airfare each, that's under $100 a day for each of us.
I will forever be proud of my trip planning for that vacation. It was amazing. I can't wait to go back again (sadly, New Fantasyland was still being built when we were there).
That said, I also cannot wait to have the opportunity to plan a trip to Universal, as I have never been there, and I am itching to check out the Wizarding World!
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^That does sound like amazing trip planning, Joy. Sounds like a bargain!
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You were saying...?
http://www.themeparktourist.com/news/20150615/30352/14-big-changes-are-coming-walt-disney-world-june-2015-edition
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I'm interested to see what the re-branding of Hollywood Studios is like. Obviously the park will have a large Star Wars presence, but I'm wondering how it'll go about it. If they add in some of their Marvel characters eventually then maybe they might be heading towards a Heroes/Villains character park? We shall see.
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I am SO ready for a larger Star Wars presence at Disney World! And I cannot begin to explain how excited I was when they finally took down that dratted Sorcerer's Hat... Neither in 2011 nor 2012 did I get to get a good picture of the Chinese Theater facade because that durned hat was in the way.
Unfortunately, they're gonna have to be very careful about what they put in their parks Marvel-wise since Universal has a lot of theme park rights to various Marvel characters...
I am SO ready for night-time stuff for Animal Kingdom! It felt so weird to have the park close at, like, 5pm. I have eagerly been following their work on the Avatar-themed land, and it's gonna be INCREDIBLE!
OMG, and a Toy Story Land! Ever since I saw pictures of the TS land overseas, I have been hoping we'd get something like that here in the US. I love the way you walk into the land and it makes you feel like you've shrunk and become a toy in Andy's room!
And an expansion for Soarin'? YES! I LOVE Soarin'! And the idea of changing it from "Soarin' Over California" (which was cool and all, but doesn't fit for Florida) to "Soarin' Over the World" is a perfect idea. Help to bolster the fact that Soarin' is at Epcot! And an expansion for Midway Mania sounds great, too!
Okay, I'm done rambling. There are more changes that I could comment on, but those are the ones I'm most excited about. Man, I can't wait to have a chance to go back to WDW in a few years (crossing fingers)!
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Yeah, they are finally dropping billions on the parks in Florida, I'm going to steal a post from elsewhere that pretty much some it up. That article was a couple of lines of pixie dust that te author snorted though. Wilderness is nice, we stayed there the improvement was ditching the kiddie pool for a small scale zero depth water play structure and steel fencing. The new improvements will be like hose bungalows at Poly at thousands a night. The Poly lobby redo was a step back in my opinion. I love Disney but the only parks we may go to before 2021 are the Cali parks. The Cali parks are getting Marvel and Star Wars in the same time frame as WDW is getting the expanded Pixar and Star Wars at Studios. No Marvel for Florida, Uni has those rights and they are going to redo Hulk and add more as Disney builds up Studios.
Anywho:
ParentsOf4 said: ↑
Yes, the project most likely will be depreciated over 25 to 40 years, so it will have a relatively small impact on today's bottom line, perhaps $50M to $80M annually. (Obviously, free cash flow will be impacted.) Divide that by a relatively modest (for WDW) 5% bump in annual attendance, and it's pretty easy to imagine how a $2B investment could readily pay for itself in increased hotel, ticket, food, and merchandise sales.
Why hasn't Disney already done this in the recent past?
Because they haven't had to.
Up till a few years ago, the Orlando theme parks had excess capacity. MyMagic+ was about optimizing that pre-existing capacity. Get Guests to preplan their trips so they would be less likely to leave 'The Bubble'. Even though that hasn't materialized, an improving economy, new South American markets, and Harry Potter have drawn millions more to Orlando. WDW's attendance is up double digits since the opening of WWOHP in 2010 and is projected to rise even more in the coming decade. The parks are becoming oppressively overcrowded. In fact, so overcrowded that Disney risks disappointing its current Guests, resulting in decreased return business.
Disney already is taking small steps to address this issue. The New Fantasyland, MK bus terminals, Hub redesign, 3rd Soarin' theater, and 3rd Toy Story Mania track are examples of recent projects designed to improve capacity.
But it isn't enough.
WDW's attendance is horribly lopsided, with MK bursting at the seams even as other parks struggle to maintain consistent attendance throughout the day. Frozen/Maelstrom and what effectively has become a twice-a-year Food & Wine Festival are Disney's attempt to draw more to Epcot. Pandora (and other projects) should help DAK. But DHS is a mess. There is no quick & easy fix for DHS.
After 15 years of low capex investments in Orlando, WDW is in need of a major expansion. Based on historical Disney data, I estimate that Iger has undercapitalized WDW to the tune of about $2.5B since taking charge. WDW desperately needs an infusion of capital and DHS could use all of it.
In recent years, there have been excuses to ignore WDW. Over $1B spent in DLR. Nearly $2B more on 2 new cruise ships. Over $2B spent in China. However, with the Shanghai project winding down, WDW is now front-and-center.
It was one thing to dump profits into stock buybacks when DIS was at $30, $50, or even $70 per share. However, with stock now at a ridiculously high $114 per share, DIS is a poor choice for "investing" company funds. The company will continue to spend billions on repurchases, but the peak years should be behind us until the stock takes a tumble. (And it will tumble during the next recession.)
Right now, Disney needs to find a place to park the roughly $9B it's going to make in net income this year.
Looking up the road, Universal has scored a grand slam not once but twice with Harry Potter. Disney hit its own homerun with Cars Land. Disney has seen that a well-themed and immersive land based on a popular IP can be a clear financial success.
Given its options, investing in Disney's domestic theme parks with a surefire winner like the Star Wars IP is looking like a pretty good choice. :)
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Thanks for that post quote, chittlins; it makes a lot of good points.
Star Wars is definitely the way to go for them.
DLR has indeed had a LOT of attention put into it; having its anniversaries and stuff has certainly helped it along. WDW is having its 50th in 2021, so they have 6 years to develop as much as they can to make a big impact for that anniversary.
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Anyone see the much anticipated Star Wars Land announcement at the D23 expo? Here's a link to the video and some questions that have been answered:
http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-land-questions/
It looks amazing and if done right (which I assume it will be), will be some great competition for Universal's Wizarding World. I think they really need to speed up construction on this than they have for previous projects, at least in Orlando. Disney's Hollywood Studios currently does not have much to offer guests when compared to other parks. I think they should get Star Wars Land open there by at least 2018/2019. Universal opened Diagon Alley in two years so I figure Star Wars Land could open in three or four in Orlando.
Toy Story Land was also announced at Disney Hollywood Studios. Are these two lands enough to save the flailing park? Thoughts?
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Anyone see the much anticipated Star Wars Land announcement at the D23 expo? Here's a link to the video and some questions that have been answered:
http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-land-questions/
It looks amazing and if done right (which I assume it will be), will be some great competition for Universal's Wizarding World. I think they really need to speed up construction on this than they have for previous projects, at least in Orlando. Disney's Hollywood Studios currently does not have much to offer guests when compared to other parks. I think they should get Star Wars Land open there by at least 2018/2019. Universal opened Diagon Alley in two years so I figure Star Wars Land could open in three or four in Orlando.
Toy Story Land was also announced at Disney Hollywood Studios. Are these two lands enough to save the flailing park? Thoughts?
Considering what's been closed and what will close (Indy Stunt and Car stunt among others) for these areas is still a net loss of attractions the jury is out on that. You get immersive lands that the masses will like but will there be enough in them to avoid the massive lines that plague popular attractions now and unless you have booked fast passes Ines at TSMM when I was there eclipsed 2 hours at times. I know they are adding another track but with increased attendance will it help much. The common theme among the purist was no carny rides like Paris and Hong Kong. I did n't have a problem with that as Disney has themed up spinners all over the place. I think their criticism was based in the lack of e and d tickets in those Toy Story Playlands, here you are getting a coaster and a different version of what is Mater's Round up at DCA to go along with an existing attraction in TSMM. The main gripe is that's a lot of land for what's being put there. The fact that the coaster has mock ups of the Parashoot jump and maybe RC Racers begs the question of why didn't they just add those rides as well to compliment the new bigger ticket attractions. I think more is added as time passes, to build it up more as this will not open till 2018. I wanted a Star Wars themed Deluxe hotel with park access like what you find at DCA with the Californian. Seeing the artwork, that could have been epic, giving the area more depth and a changing backdrop when dark with room lights going on and off.
Been looking at Fantasialand too much.
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I really thought they could have built a fifth theme park just around Star Wars. Hadn't thought of the hotel idea yet, but that sounds like it would have been really cool. There are so many possibilities of things they could do with Star Wars.
And I think adding Toy Story Land is just something to do to save the park. I think something more creative could be added.
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I really thought they could have built a fifth theme park just around Star Wars. Hadn't thought of the hotel idea yet, but that sounds like it would have been really cool. There are so many possibilities of things they could do with Star Wars.
And I think adding Toy Story Land is just something to do to save the park. I think something more creative could be added.
I think Star War's could have been stand alone as well.
They have skipped a few IP's that would have made good attractions. Incredibles, Up, Monsters Inc. They have really fumbled Frozen. It was and is huge, yet we get piecemeal attractions and when they get to doing a ride, it's a conversion of a ride in Epcot. They will get the princesses there but it all seems so half a%&ed.
I get that the while working studio thing wasn't really working and Disney Studios needed the change.
I hate a full on invasion of characters in Epcot.
I suppose I wished WDW stayed the dominion of Disney animation and classic live action
I wish Epcot stayed closer to original vision
I see Disney Studio being the home of Pixar, modern live action, CGI and non animation films.
Animal Kingdom is expertly done with, I love this park. I, like many others, think iit does need more but Avatar scares us and we just hope the rides are great no matter how we feel about the film. I see select IP's fitting in here like some already do. The Loin King show, no brainer. I see Indy fitting in, Up would have fit. A new version of the Jungle Book was a missed opportunity but the boats ride it had is long gone. I don't even mind the maligned Dino area, I just know that the Dinosaur dark ride is an inferior version of the ride system used for Indy out west. Being the in Feb, I got to see how twilight looked I 5hat park and can't what for the extended hours with the new show. Pictures of AK dark look awesome.
I hate Disney Quest is going away, I wished for a renewed investment to bring it up to date.
The waterparks are great, but they really have not added newer stuff there for some time, Universal is building what many think will be a Proslide gallary of wow with the same level of theming.
Read where Jimmy Buffet is part of a new resort in Kissimmee, close to AK, Margaritavillage, hotel, home rental and timeshares, 17 acre waterpark, Fins Up Arcade concept, Buffett branded eateries and other attractions. This just begs for a themed ropes course.
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That Star Wars hotel talk was something from a poster that seems to have some info from time to time.
Here's a photo of Phantasialand's African themed Hotel overlooking the African part of the park that's home to a highly themed B&M suspended coaster. Notice how the themed structures of the rides ends perfectly with the hotel. This is amazing work. This a must do park on my list.
(http://www.thethemeparkguy.com/park/phantasialand-bruehl/suspended-roller-coaster-at-phantasialands-africa-section-big.jpg)