SDCFans - The Unofficial Fan Site For Silver Dollar City
General Category => Other Parks => Dollywood Discussion => Topic started by: sanddunerider on July 27, 2011, 10:30:46 AM
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Not wanting to open a can of worms, but i did see this article today.:
http://news.yahoo.com/gay-couple-asked-reverse-shirt-dollywood-200120079.html
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Wow, that is definitely a can of worms! ;)
Regardless of a person's view on same sex couples, Dollywood has always been a private business, and land owner. With that being said, Dollywood has the right to reject anyone from coming onto their property, and for whatever reason they want.
If the lesbian couple does not like that, then they should stop complaining, and spend their money elsewhere. Money talks louder than words.
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Signs of the times? We ain't got long. Get your house in order.
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Hmmm...countless shirts at SDC about "Big Pecker Trucks" etc for straight folk and that's okay. I see.
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I agree that certain shirts can be offensive, but I think that the enforcement of this policy is VERY subjective. It almost seems the front gate has certain things to look for when allowing entrance to the park.
Disney has a very similar policy:
Examples of unacceptable attire includes:
Clothing displaying offensive messages/language
Adult costumes or clothing that can be viewed as a costume (children under age 10 are excluded)
Clothing made with offensive material, (ie transparent)
Clothing that is excessively torn
Clothing which exposes inappropriate portions of the body such as string bikini tops, G-strings, bikini bottoms, etc.
Guests wearing wedding attire are discouraged from entering the Theme Parks.
I would like to see the number of infractions that occour on a daily basis, curse words, slurs, etc...but I would be pretty sure that Confederate apparel would be acceptable.
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I wish our society was accepting enough that a T-shirt saying "Marriage is Gay" would not be offensive.
I'm probably one of the most liberal members on this board, so it's probably not a shocker when I say that I agree with the couple that "family friendly" should include ALL types of family. I myself am straight, but I have many, many gay friends and it hurts me to see them hurt. Love is love, no matter what temple holds your soul, and it shouldn't be hated or discriminated against.
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The article specifically mentions that Dollywood welcomes everyone (which includes gay couples) to attend their park. However, they do have a right to say what people can not wear on their property. I don't think Dollywood was hating, or discriminating against them personally. Dollywood just found the shirt to be offensive which they have a right to. Dollywood could implement a no blue shirt policy if they wanted. However, that doesn't mean that Dollywood hates people who wear blue shirts.
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I guess my thought on this is as long as the shirt is not flat out insulting/dirty language, who cares?
In this case.... sexual preference aside.
"marriage is Gay" - Nothing dirty, and i would imagine that 80% of the people that "might" read would not even pay attention to it.!
It not like it says Marriage is F******** Gay!??
I would like to know the specifics on this, how old was the employee, why he/she thought it was offensive. Or other details.
I think maybe the employee overstepped their "authority:...
This is just my thoughts.
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Can of worms is officially opened.
<soapbox>
I am extremely tired of the liberal agenda.
We can't have a cross at the site of the 9-11 attacks, but they can force us to allow them to advertise there agenda at a Christian based theme park in the South. This person wore this shirt hoping to cause a scene.
Why do people insist on shoving there personal agenda down everyone else's throat?
If someone wants to be gay that's there business. The bible calls homosexuality a sin. period. I don't have to accept it if I don't want to.
</Soapbox>
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okie! agree with you about the cross, pledge of allegiance, in god we trust and so on. But that is all another conversation.
I am not going to get into the gay thing.
My point is that the shirt was not loud!or had offensive language! or had Derogatory language! or was flipping the bird..
My point would be if i were to wear a shirt that said "marriage is straight.". would i have to change my shirt?
If not? why? Arent i expressing my sexual belief?
I think right or wrong, should not be a personal feeling. But the park does need to have rules/guidelines to follow..
I would still like to know the employee and the thoughts/feelings/beliefs. I bet that would shed some light on the subject.
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I guess my thought on this is as long as the shirt is not flat out insulting/dirty language, who cares?
In this case.... sexual preference aside.
"marriage is Gay" - Nothing dirty, and i would imagine that 80% of the people that "might" read would not even pay attention to it.!
It not like it says Marriage is F******** Gay!??
I would like to know the specifics on this, how old was the employee, why he/she thought it was offensive. Or other details.
I think maybe the employee overstepped their "authority:...
This is just my thoughts.
I agree. I think what makes the Herschend properties special is their foundation on Christian Values. But I will say, if you are a Company that is going to stay viable in this economic climate, you really have to have clear policies. As you all know, Gay Days is now a yearly event that just happens to take place at WDW during the first weekend in July. We do not solicit for this to happen on a particular weekend, but it does because we run a BUSINESS. There are certainly people who have issues or certain feelings about being subjected to fundamental beliefs other than their own, but that's what makes our trained Cast Members great. We deal with those issues on a case by case basis, but we have clear guidelines.
We are a "family" park, but we are also "open to every guest, every day" like Dollywood and SDC. If you plan on surviving this economy then you need understand that no one should be discriminated against if it's not clear as to why. The word "GAY" isn't a dirty word - but if it sparks reaction by anyone, then it should be clearly stated in their policies. If someone was gay and clearly mentioned it to someone at the Park, but didn't wear the word "gay" on their shirt, I wonder if they would be refused service?
I hate to say this, but I remember VIVIDLY going to SDC as a kid and having people comment about noticing "how many black people are beginning to come to the Park." Maybe I've always been empathic, but even as a kid, I found that pretty appalling.
I love the parks...always will. I'm a devout Christian but take issue with discrimination. I just feel this a pretty bad business move.
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I should also say that even though this board will be divided on this subject, I appreciate the open and honest dialogue that is supported here. I've grown up working in Parks my entire life and have dealt with Guests who disagree with Park Policy as well as my own personal beliefs, but it has never affected my view of what service is.
That's why I love you all. You totally can let it all out about social barometer issues like this and still come back together for the love of the Herschend Experience.
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Saw an Internet story about an ugly woman, very butch looking, tattooed, old, bulging mid section, who decided to wear a string bikini top into a Wal-Mart in Oregon to pick up a few items in the grocery section. An employee told her to put on a shirt or she would have to go. Said coming in like that violated health code in the grocery section. The old gal threw a big fit about it, crying to the media. (On the soapbox now) Where has decorum gone, common sense, and manners, consideration for others? If your as nasty as that in public, please, do us all a favor and STAY AT HOME! And, no...even if this gal would have been some great looking 21 year old beach babe, I still would not want to see her strutting around in a string bikini top at Wal-Mart. Come on...Of course, since the media gave the story a lot of attention, Wal-Mart apologized for the incident. To me, they should throw out any circus freaks who come in to shop.
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LOL....you take your life in your hands a Wal-Mart anyway! I still pine for the days when people think about what they wear to the Parks. Anyone ever see the early days of Disneyland when it opened? Sunday best (dresses, gloves, pressed pants).
Mind you people work too hard to dress up...especially in this heat, but just ONE TIME, I would love to see people really enjoy the park in their finest.
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Mind you people work too hard to dress up...especially in this heat, but just ONE TIME, I would love to see people really enjoy the park in their finest.
I would do it!!
But as far as the shirt issue, I know a person (she used to be my friend, then things happened. Anyway...) who wears a "Straight Pride" shirt all the time and I have never heard anybody say anything to her about it. Not even at school. But I'm pretty sure that if she has worn a Gay Pride shirt, many people would be very offended. I don't think that's right. My best friend is gay, and we were friends before I even knew he was gay. So I don't see what the big deal is. People are people and they should be treated as such.
I don't see how it should be any different than wearing a shirt about Jesus. It's still stating a belief. Yes, I'm Christian, but I'm also very open minded, but not to discrimination.
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ALL of my photos from the 50's/ early60's show the park/ cave with dresses, and pressed pants! It is a great reflection of the society at the time. Look at the footage (or think back for some of you' all) at the early Beatles concerts...dresses, dress shirts etc...VERY DIFFERENT SOCIETY THAN TODAY .Now we deal with dresses made of meat and men wearing socks (yes only socks...sometimes on their feet) on stage at musical performances. Things have changed. I would know, I see it firsthand in the schools. These kids-middle and high school-emulate anything that will draw attention and allow them to immitate these celebrities.
As a teacher I have to constantly monitor shirts for anything offensive, and our policy states specifically the same basic things as the HFEC & WD rules. We make judgement calls based on what is best for the school as a whole. If it involves sex drugs or something crude, or ANYTHING THAT DRAWS UNECCESSARY ATTENTION then off to the locker room to change into a gym uniform (goes for short skirts/ shorts/ ill fitting pants as well). I am trying to think if "Marriage is Gay" applies to our school policy, and since it would draw more negative attention and remarks in the public school setting, they would more than likely be asked to change it. I would not be the one to make the choice, I would refer them to the administrators, and allow them the decision.
Times have changed for sure.
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Junior look up the web site "The people of Walmart"
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I've seen that Website, "People of Wal-Mart" and sometimes I think they took the majority of those photos in my local store! HA! ;D
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WOW junior, so they took pictures at only 2 stores? your store in branson and the south walmart in topeka!!??? too funny!
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My immediate thought when seeing that the shirt read "Marriage is gay" was why would a gay person wear a shirt expressing that sentiment anyway? In a time when the gay movement is pushing so hard for the right to marry, why would one wear a shirt that seems to downplay it? Usually, when we hear the expression "that's gay" or "that's so gay," it's synonymous with the expression "that's lame," or feeble. Even my gay friends around here use the expression in that respect. So I just thought it strange. But the article said that the couple was not married, so maybe it's a personal thing.
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Well, one possible interpretation of the shirt is “Marriage [between a man, and a woman] is so gay.”
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zephon, ozark! see thats my point!
1st of all only about 10% of the people will see AND read the t-shirt.
and out of that 10% i would guess maybe 90% will even think about what it means??
And the rest of us will talk about it on a forum!!!! LMAO!!!!
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Can of worms is officially opened.
<soapbox>
I am extremely tired of the liberal agenda.
Why do people insist on shoving there personal agenda down everyone else's throat?
</Soapbox>
You're spot on here and that's exactly what was happening in this situation. The shirt was worn deliberately to get a reaction or to shove it "in your face". It used to be gays only wanted to be tolerated, fine they got that. Now that's not good enough, they want to force you to accept their lifestyle as nothing out of the ordinary and you should approve. I do not have to and won't. I'm libertarian enough to appreciate "to each his own" and personally don't care what other people do as long as it doesn't harm or infringe on anyone else's rights. This is not the case. I do not find the gay lifestyle acceptable and do not feel it should be shoved in my or my children's face constantly.
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You're spot on here and that's exactly what was happening in this situation. The shirt was worn deliberately to get a reaction or to shove it "in your face". It used to be gays only wanted to be tolerated, fine they got that. Now that's not good enough, they want to force you to accept their lifestyle as nothing out of the ordinary and you should approve. I do not have to and won't. I'm libertarian enough to appreciate "to each his own" and personally don't care what other people do as long as it doesn't harm or infringe on anyone else's rights. This is not the case. I do not find the gay lifestyle acceptable and do not feel it should be shoved in my or my children's face constantly.
Wow! Just for argument's sake: How far back should we go in correcting the "Liberal agenda"? Interracial marriage? Women voting? These also "used" to be really big problems with individual personal beliefs. That's what is great about having personal beliefs; they inform the way we live and the decisions we make.
I think the thing we are missing out here is that the Guest complied when asked. They also clearly asked that if there was going to be a guideline, that it be published and addressed.
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They are human beings, and yes, they have rights. They do not have the right however to force me to accept or approve of what they're doing. That was my point. Tolerance is one thing I have no problem with. Forced acceptance is another. The gay lifestyle is contrary to my personal beliefs and not something I want to children to see as perfectly ok because I don't think it is. What you or anyone else believes is your business, and I will not try to convince you otherwise. I just get extremely tired of hearing how anyone (other than a Christian) is being "discriminated" against because they're doing something that most of mainstream America feels is wrong.
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Yeah, but they kind of are being discriminated against. Look, I will agree that this topic will always be a point of division among people - but my point is that not even a generation ago, the same rhetoric could be heard towards blacks, and before that: women.
I'm glad we have progressed as a society and we can disagree with lifestyle choices and legislation that passes. I just hope people see that wearing a shirt isn't forcing anyone to change their viewpoint. That's all.
Okay, ready to pass the peace pipe now :)
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Yeah, but they kind of are being discriminated against. Look, I will agree that this topic will always be a point of division among people - but my point is that not even a generation ago, the same rhetoric could be heard towards blacks, and before that: women.
I'm glad we have progressed as a society and we can disagree with lifestyle choices and legislation that passes. I just hope people see that wearing a shirt isn't forcing anyone to change their viewpoint. That's all.
Okay, ready to pass the peace pipe now :)
I know what you're saying about blacks and women and I agree. I just have a feeling they knew what they were doing when they wore the shirt, knew they were going to a conservative leaning park and trying to get a reaction. I may be wrong about that, but it sure seems like it happens more and more.
No hard feelings towards anyone. The greatest freedom we have is the ability to speak our minds which means we also have to hear others say things we don't agree with.
Inhaling as we speak :)
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Hugs is what we ALL need! ;D.
Okay...why is there NO Huggy emoticon on here!
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We can rail down this goat trail for ever, but I don't think it's worth it. Bottom line is that HFEC is still at least partly a Christian-led company and has a right to protect the sanctity of the institutions they uphold. This shirt was obviously crafted in a way that made it very easy to mis-interpret. The words "Marriage is Gay" will obviously sound to many like a jab towards the religious institution of marriage, which is held sacred by people of many religions. I don't know if that's what they intended it to be, but regardless, the employee did his/her job in making sure that no issues arose because of the shirt.
The media blitz and public bickering that has followed this story has been unhealthy for everyone. As our society continues to adapt and change, it would do well for both Christians and gays to acknowledge that each has their own rights in this country, and picking fights like this just hurts all of us. It should be common sense to make sure one's clothing is not offensive to certain groups before entering a large public place, and running to the media after making a mistake like this is downright shameful. I hope that lady learns to respect religious institutions as we respect her right to do whatever she wants to do with her life.
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That strikes the nail on the head shave!
What else is there to say?
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Dolly has apologized for this incident.
http://abcnewsradioonline.com/music-news/2011/7/29/dolly-parton-apologizes-for-gay-t-shirt-incident-at-dollywoo.html
I wonder how the partnership between Dolly and HFEC will be affected by this?
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Not at all I would think. Dolly is still just as loyal to her gay followers, and I assume HFEC will continue to uphold their policies just as they always have. Nothing to see here...
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Nope.. will not make any difference at all..
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It irks me that they, or rather she apologized. I think Dollywood should have stood by their decision. Again, Dollywood isn’t striking out specifically against gay people, but against the shirt they deem offensive.
Score 1 for the forcefully outspoken, 15 minutes of fame seeking, agenda pushing couple.
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I wish our society was accepting enough that a T-shirt saying "Marriage is Gay" would not be offensive.
I'm probably one of the most liberal members on this board, so it's probably not a shocker when I say that I agree with the couple that "family friendly" should include ALL types of family. I myself am straight, but I have many, many gay friends and it hurts me to see them hurt. Love is love, no matter what temple holds your soul, and it shouldn't be hated or discriminated against.
I totally agree, Joy.
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The shirt was worn deliberately to get a reaction or to shove it "in your face".
Wow, a mind reader with a time machine! Cool!
I wish I could travel back in time and know what was going through someone's mind. I think I'd use it for bigger issues than a t-shirt, though.
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Don't need to be either to see what is obvious. If you've got a better explanation I'd love to hear it. The fact that they went crying to the media pretty much tells me they got what they were looking for.
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*sigh*
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your right larson,
your right too KB..... ::) ::)
LOL
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I am positive that Dolly would stand up for the gay rights as that is a huge following of hers, and she is very open minded.
That being said, when I first read what the shirt said, I thought personally a lot of "gay" people would be offended by the shirt, as most I know want the word "gay" to stop being used in a negative way. And as was brought out, now people use gay as a negative word, meaning lame, and such.
Oh well semantics there. The point for sure is every property owner has a right to a dress code, schools, stores, etc. I'm a hillbilly as some may call it, but I don't go to the media about the no shoes no service rules at most public places. lol haha I go ahead and abide and put my shoes on! haha
I would bet since it has to be a personal call by each ticket taker or what ever it's a hard job, and I would assume that the employee meant no disrespect, but was just trying to do their job. My sister once wore a swim suit to SDC that the gate employee said she needed a shirt over. We didn't raise a stink she got a shirt and put it on.
As for blacks at SDC, well it's true till the last decade there wasn't many. I always personally used that to my advantage. haha I always could find my dad and siblings. My dad is Mexican and he and my step mother have adopted 6 children from Haiti. When ever I lost them, all I had to do was ask around if some one seen a Mexican man with 6 black children go by and every one seemed to know exactly what direction they went in! lol I personally am in a bi-racial marriage myself. The first few years I went with my husband there still wasn't much ethnic diversity on the park. I think mainly it was a regional thing, not because they weren't allowed, or weren't welcomed. I have to say we have NEVER had any problems with SDC and racism. However, because I rarely seen many blacks around the area (till less then 10 years ago) I will say I was a little scared to tent camp at the Wilderness the first year by ourselves. Well, quite honestly I was VERY afraid. While we were there, there was a terrible storm. The men from two trailers parked next to our tent both came during the storm, first one scared me to death, I was like oh no.......trouble, but instead the man said my wife sent me to see if you were ok, do you want to come to our trailer for shelter? We kindly thanked him and said we would be ok, had tent camped in worse (which I have, I had the tent pretty secured as I was used to tent camping in such conditions), and then the other trailer on the other side of us man/husband also came to check on us. I've never been worried again. To tell you the truth, I was quite impressed and very proud for lack of a better word at the love and concern shown.
But, again even though there never used to be many on the park, even when my family was all I seen there that wasn't of the norm, we never had a service problem at all at SDC. And always had more then nice service from every one there.
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I wonder what happened with this...it was big national news, but died down rather quickly. Anyone know?
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Good question Rube!
The ladies got their 15 minutes of fame that they were seeking by running to the news media with their story. Their 15 minutes is up, so their attention seeking days are over until the next big thing.
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I was there in Pigeon Forge / Dollywood when this happened. It was a non event, there were a few people sitting out on the main drag near the turn protesting. If I am not mistaken at the high point of the scandal there were 3 people out there sitting on the side walk with a sign that said " Dolly, you should be ashamed of yourself"
Those 3 were young 20 maybe, rough looking little crew.
This entire thing was justified on DW's part, there is no reason to wear a shirt like that to a theme park, maybe to the gay bar on drag night, but not spreading your message in a private business that is full of 30000 customers a day that have paid more than $50 to get their kids in to have good family fun. Dollywood is wrong to appologise for keeping the park "clean". That is expected and that is why millions a year pay to experience a safe clean family atmosphere.
Dollywood did the right thing.
The press made a big deal out of this.
THey would have fit in better at Six Flags.............
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Good question Rube!
The ladies got their 15 minutes of fame that they were seeking by running to the news media with their story. Their 15 minutes is up, so their attention seeking days are over until the next big thing.
OR the next NOT SO BIG thing. LOL!!
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After some digging I fouind this:
http://travel.usatoday.com/destinations/dispatches/post/2011/08/dolly-parton-apologies-to-lesbian-couple-over-dollywood-t-shirt-incident/413677/1 (http://travel.usatoday.com/destinations/dispatches/post/2011/08/dolly-parton-apologies-to-lesbian-couple-over-dollywood-t-shirt-incident/413677/1)
"Dolly apopgizes to couple"
"Everyone knows of my personal support of the gay and lesbian community. Dollywood is a family park and all families are welcome," she said. "We do have a policy about profanity or controversial messages on clothing or signs. It is to protect the individual wearing or carrying them, as well as to keep down fights or problems by those opposed to it at the park. We even offer free shirts in exchange to those who want to remain in the park."
Dollywood management had offered the couple a refund and was going to meet with them in person Tuesday, but declined to after the couple said they wanted to bring a representative from a gay rights organization, the Campaign for Southern Equality, according to the Knoxville News Sentinel.
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I know I am beating a dead horse here, but I still believe that shirt was worn to demand attention. There is no other reason for them to run straight to the media with their story, when it was something that could have been resolved on a lower management level.
This has less, and less to do about accepting gay rights, and more to do about two chicks looking for their claim to fame.