Was at white water a couple weeks ago. There was a guy in the lazy river explaining to his kid that they were going to be tearing out the current lazy river at the end of the season and rebuilding it into something that was much larger and took you to other places in the park.
After looking at the contition of the lazy river and the fact it looks like it's about to disentegrate this wouldn't suprise me. I would guess with Schlitterbahn opening in KC this may put some pressure on them to do more.
Someone has also told me the the Bermuda Triangle is going away after this year, if this is true, I hope it's in prep for a tornado.
I sure hope you are right. As has been discussed many times on this site, Whitewater is in dire need of a makeover and reinvigoration. I would love to see the concepts redoing the lazy river to integrate it into the entire park. It would be interesting to see how they pull that off. A water coaster would go a long way towards updating their image.
I'd love to see a major revamp at WW. Even an expansion, if possible. It's been a few years since I've been to the park. I have always enjoyed going.
I seriously doubt there is any way for them to expand the lazy river to be like schlitterbaan's (sp?) transport rivers and water queue systems. WW is not set up for it. I do expect to see a new slide or two to replace the Bermuda triangle sometime here shortly.
I have a great idea move White Water to Celebration City's old location and include an amazing Aquarium, that way the property can generate revenue all season long. Some of the slides could even go through some of the water exhibits.
If you're going to move it, move it out by SDC and add a resort to it.
No need to ever come into town then... man that sure sounds like Disney.
Copper, I like your idea about moving WW to the CC site. Much more room, plus several buildings and rides at the site could be implemented into a revamped WW. I really like the idea of maybe having water slide tubes through some of the big aquarium displays...like a tube running through a shark tank...or something like that. It would be a pretty exciting thing. I think there could be potentially a resort/hotel thing on the property, too. What do ya'll think?
I definitely agree. Put a resort hotel on the property and that area could be a major gateway to SDC. I have said it before, but I will say it again. I would theme WW to 1910 Coney Island and keep the wooden coaster and vastly improve the boardwalk. Other non-water rides could stay and just be themed appropriately. If you want to get really technical a parking garage could be built that could transfer people to WW or SDC, they do own about 100 acres in that area. I would build a trolley themed monorail to connect the two properties, the ride would be beautiful and fun, an adventure in itself.
That is actually a pretty good idea to relocate WW on the CC property. Even thought the hotel thing would probably make a lot of money, I think it's a little too extreme for SDC. I don't want to feel like I'm going into Disney world when I want to go to WW if ya know what I mean! ;D
monorails in the 1880's??? hmmmm I think its time to burn a witch at the stake!! j/k. I am not all that gaga over WW. What is special about it? What brings delight to the people besides the water. Nothing just jumps out and says VISIT ME!!! So on that note, I want them to keep WW where it is and just take out tard-o rides and put in somethin nicer more attention gettin.
Didn't you all know that Baldknobbers don't like to get wet? :P
Speaking of moving White Water to the old Celebration City site, I think the park could really use a nice outdoor laser, lights, and pyrotechnic show! Perhaps, with their giant pool, and fountains with underwater lights that change colors.
I'll be frank, and admit that I have never attended the park at nighttime, so perhaps they already have something like this? ??? However, I think the summertime nightlife would really bring in a lot of revenue for Whitewater.
I have to agree with Swoosh the thing to do is to move it out to the SDC property. With an investment of 35-40 million SDC would have Branson really starting to worry. They are close enough on Indian Point to use the lake. If they had one or two themed hotels to stay at(as a beginning) along with the water park people would have no reason to drive down the strip.
might be hard to keep 1880's them wiht new hotels and WW there in one area.. And i wonder if HFEC reaaly wants to try to monopolize on tourist traffic? Keeping them Off of the strip. Of course "we" would always have the option to go to "town". But that brings me back to a statement i had made earlier. What about dinner and shows?.. would they offer that in the hotels? Or leave that to Branson? Lots of "ifs" "ands" "buts" and Maybes to work out on the complete scenario.
Check out the next thread under Whitewater about the new survey. Some new info there. Some new thoughts, too.
An announcement is coming soon from SDC regarding White Water 2011!
Yay! I can't wait to see what it is!
I hope it is something big. We haven't even bothered going to WW the past several years because it is so outdated. I want them to give me a reason to return.
Quote from: U Smell Smoke on October 23, 2010, 09:27:30 PM
I hope it is something big. We haven't even bothered going to WW the past several years because it is so outdated. I want them to give me a reason to return.
You mean the water alone on a hot day isn't reason enough? :P
I agree though, White Water could use a face lift, and something fresh.
The main thing needing to be refreshed was the lazy river. I think this is what WW will announce, a new lazy river!
What's wrong with the lazy river?! ???
Last time I was there (this past summer), I didn't really notice that the lazy river needed to be refurbished. Although it'd be nice if it was a little more interesting... but I'm not sure how they could do that and still keep it "lazy." Like, if they added a water wall that you had to go through, you'd piss off all the women who don't want to get their hair wet. I just can't really see what they could do to it though to make it better... it's always VERY popular... almost TOO popular! You have to wait FOREVER to get a tube... but I really can't see how they can improve that at all.
Now the kids' play area could use a new paint job. But other than that, I really don't know what they'll do.
I agree. Although the Lazy River is my least favorite "ride" (if it qualifies for this category) due to lack of excitement, there are many people, both young and old who enjoy this. In fact, I know that this is someone's favorite ride. I call her mom, lol ::)
So many of the attractions at WW would be made much better with a little atmosphere. The lazy river would be a lot more fun with "rock" walls and vegetation on the sides, like an actual river, rather than being just a concrete trough with water flowing through it.
I really like what the chain has been doing with DW's splash country. If I'm not mistaken, that park has won numerous awards for it's great layout and theme. The Cascades addition looks really interesting and I'd like to see more attractions in that vein rather than having everything be just concrete and fiberglass.
I think you may have hit the nail on the head shavethewhales!
Silver Dollar City is a first class theme park, so why can't they transform White Water into a first class water park? Perhaps the goal of the park is for simple, and cheap thrills. However, they could transform the park into a real looking beach, or jungle, or whatever other theme they wanted to use. Heck, they could really give it an Ozarks feel, and theme it after an old town water hole, or something. :)
The original theme of Whitewater in 1980 was "all the fun of the old swimmin' hole." It featured a park mascot, Wally Whitewater, which was a big happy, beaver. Buildings were themed like the buildings at SDC to some extent...more rustic, Ozark-like. Then, someone came up with the tropical theme and "the beach within reach." I agree that it would be good to see some atmosphere with rocks, more plants, and so on, and I don't know why they don't do it...unless it's a matter of maintenance and money.
@makayna.........Makes ya wonder why one would go to a water park if one didnt want to get their hair wet......
I am not fond of WW as I have stated before and I believe it needs something snazzy. Right now its a few slides and a lazy river. Whoop. EE. And not having enough tubes to go around is the pits. A real kill joy. If I paid high dollar to swim there I would expect a tube for me, no waiting involved. Have I mentioned I hate white water??
@greentrams: Some people have color treated hair and contact lenses. Getting your head wet with chlorinated water affects those things.
Some just want to swim and sun tan and come to keep an eye on their kids, who want to have fun.
I think lazy river could be improved by "speeding up" the flow of the river and incorporating waterfalls and spray jets for 5 or 10 minutes, once an hour, like they do with the wavepool. Outside of that, keep the river "Lazy" :)
I didnt think about contacts or hair.....thats good thinkin nate!
I forgot to post this earlier sorry!
Aloha River @ Hula Hula Bay
http://www.bransonwhitewater.com/rides-attractions/ride_detail.aspx?AttractionID=1420 (http://www.bransonwhitewater.com/rides-attractions/ride_detail.aspx?AttractionID=1420)
Nice catch Copper! :)
If they pull it off, this new Aloha River could be just the spark that White Water needs this summer. It seems pretty interesting, and fun which will hopefully draw in the crowds once the heat returns next year.
that does look likea\n answer to the WW question..
This'll definitely help the park's atmosphere out a lot. I like what the concept art seems to be hinting at - rock work, waterfalls, etc. This is exactly what I want to see them doing to the park. I just wish they had extended this to more of the park.
I think this is great :) Does anybody know for sure if this is replacing the Lazy River or is it in a completely different area?
I checked th WW website, looked at the map, and LR is still there (bit no mention of aloha river)... Then i looked at the "rides" description and AR is on there and LR is not.... SOOOOOO I imagine the aloha is replacing the lazy river....????? you think? :-\
From the wording of the announcement page it sounded like a refurbishment of the current lazy river. Notice how they talk about additional seating and cabanas. The park isn't large enough to need 2 lazy rivers.
I know that some will be sad to see the current Lazy River go. However, there are plenty of other "tame" areas in the park to enjoy. Aloha River does not look like it will be particularly ferocious, so it will still cater to most of the people who liked lazy river, while encouraging others who previously dismissed it as "boring" to check it out :)
I am excited to see it in action. Buying a 2011 SDC/WW pass with my next check :)
Aloha River at Hula Hula Bay...sounds like a nice addition for 2011! Way to go, Whitewater... :)
(http://hfeimages.aristotle.net/WW/2011-WW-AlohaRiverRend_md.jpg)
I drove past WW's parking lot while in Branson over Thanksgiving. Hard to tell where they are at with the new project but there was plenty of landscaping material piled up in the parking lot--rock, gravel, dirt and so forth. It looked like several of the play features from the kiddie areas inside the old lazy river had been removed and were laid out in the parking lot. Aloha River appears to be a nice addition to WW but I don't think it's enough for me and my family to want to spend any time or money there next year. If we want to go to a waterpark we'll go to either Holiday World/Splashin Safari or Dolly's Splash Country. Both of those parks are way ahead of WW when it comes to splashing fun.
In the latest addition of the times, it stood out to me how much they are emphasizing the change Aloha River will bring to the park. They actually go as far to say "it's like a brand new White Water!" Sounds like the upgrades will extend much farther into the park than just the river itself.
Well the major "retheme" really started with the addition of the new entrance and ticket booths. It seems they've really been emphasizing it since the addition of Kalani
How are things going this winter at Whitewater? Are the new improvements shaping up yet? Any photos that could be shared? You know, you could probably drive right up to the fence and snap a few pictures if you are in town! Can somebody give us a report?
i will be there in 2 weeks,, i will try to remember to get some shots..
Quote from: Junior on January 24, 2011, 08:27:54 AM
How are things going this winter at Whitewater?
The best I can offer is a webcam of the area
http://www.bransontracks.com/webcam-lumberjack.asp
LOL! i checked that earlier today, but really does not show anything.. :'(
Her are some pics from WW taken today, cant see anything from the fron, BUT if you go outback.... OH MAN!!! dozer and back hoes and trackhoes working away.. you can see the rock and dirt still in the parking lot to be used on project. And 1 pic of what appears to be all the dirt and rock taken OUT for the project.. This obviously was a little more than just redoing the river and fresh paint! hope pics come out..
Awesome, thanks so much for the pics! It's great to see how much they've dug out. They're really re-doing the entire middle of the park it looks like.
Glad to oblige.
as i am not familar with the actual layout of the park,. I would agree with you.. They dug OUT a lot of material from somewhere.
the one picture of the "trash" pile is just part of the trash.. I would say there is 4 to 5 times that laying around there that is out of the picture!!
Appears to be a massive project.
Alright! Thanks for the photos!
;D
Here's a link to this week's WW story in the Branson Tri-Lakes News. Story also says that WW will be open until 10 pm on Friday and Saturday nights July 1 - August 15.
http://bransontrilakesnews.com/news_free/article_b7c2048a-3edb-11e0-acff-001cc4c03286.html
Pretty good article.. several details.
I for some reason was not aware of the 3 million dollar price tag on this project. I thought it was about a 1 million? oh well wrong again!
Almost sounds like this may be a major effort on HFEC's part to make WW a
more competitive waterpark. Kind of like a "ok, lets try 1 more thing"..
If this doesnt work out for them as far as drawing more customers/people. I think HFEC will be doing a Major park elsewhere... maybe CC?
Still say they should move Roaring Falls over to WW from CC. Noah's Ark in the Dells has a ride at their park (also a waterpark) and it goes over well there.
Oceans of Fun, too, shares Monsoon with Worlds of Fun. And I've seen plenty OoF visitors riding Monsoon.
How much "room" do they have to expand at WW? Do they own the vacant property west of the slides? If so I am surprised they have not started using it.
pics from the street. parking was locked. notice the dozers in the background..
see how much dirt/rock has been removed?
will try to get better pics tomorrow.
Ok people, here are some closer pics. not sure of the order you will see them in, but the
1st picture is of a stockpile of rock that still has to go into the job.
2nd picture you can see dozer and some fresh concrete structure
still can see the HUGE dirt piles.
I was able to get a little closer to the project and you see alot of new concrete. It looks to me like they complete rebuilt the "lazy river". check the pics. I was asked to leave before I could get more. LOL
Last pic is a stack of trees, obviously ready to go into the ground.
Looks like a lot of work to go, but they have 60 days!
This appears now that this was a MAJOR overhaul of the interior of this park. I have never actually been there, But i am seeing a lot demolition and rebuilding.
ENJOY!!
??? New pics
did you forget something?
Also, if it hasn't been covered already, the park is now officially call Silver Dollar City's White Water (it used to be called White Water or White Water Branson) - and it has a new logo without the bird
OK OK OK!! i will try it again!
Thanks for all the photos. And a name and logo change, too, huh?
New pictures on facebook!
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?id=7656242602&aid=340780
Darn u sanddune i wanted to be the first to post that!! what do u live on here?? oh wait it says u do! :) :). It would be nice if there were more than 3 pics! But it does look nice.
I will down there in a couple of weeks, and will try to get more pictures.
And YES it does seem like i live on here, But i have a construction company and spring is coming.!
Looks good so far. A little smaller channel than I thought, but they'll want to keep volumes down as much as possible since it isn't exactly a huge or highly-trafficked park. Can't wait to see the details emerge.
I was taking a look at those photos of the new river and it the river is now way toward the front of the park. You can see the building that is there to take pictures by as you walk in is now right by the river an the walk way when you first come in is too.. I wonder what they did with the other space..? I'm going to guess more area to sit and lay out to tan and what not. But they shifted it over a bunch..
I will try to get 1 more set of pics when in branson next week. probably be my last trip before the WW season starts.
The river was always by where u came in it just had a burm and you couldnt see one place from the other.
Well yes but it's even more toward the front. You can see where the river turns around back toward the entrance to the park is by the cabanas at the rain tree.. And that was only about near halfway of the old river.. I guess you'll see what I mean if more pictures are put on! :)
ok after a little more inspection of the new photos i think that this is a new ride and not where the lazy river is. if u look at the pics and google satellite photos you will see that it appears that is sits in a blank spot between the entry way lazy river and the raintree island. You can see the entire aloha river and it does not go anywere the lazy river went. the lazy river went around the little kids play area and this clearly does not. I think this might just be an additional ride and not a replacement unless they are just going to take out the lazy river.
I found this on white waters website.
"White Water gets bigger, better and wetter in 2011 with an all-new, highly-themed tropical river adventure, Aloha River at Hula Hula Bay. A whole new area of the park is a setting of lush Polynesian jungles reminiscent of the South Pacific surrounding a river, where tube riders cast off and float, maneuvering the calm waters through the tropical greenery - yet meeting unexpected twists and turns, water features, fountains, misters, geysers and more. Along the way are new seating areas and cabanas for riverside relaxing. This 800-plus-foot river (longer than two football fields!) is the park's longest, wettest, coolest ride yet, opening in late May."
Don't read too much into it. Other than expanding the lazy river by making it more twisted instead of a big oval there is not much "new area" in the sense of "new area" -- the PR machine is going on over drive with the description, which is fine considering that the park has not received any major facility upgrades for quite awhile. This is definitely a step in the right direction. I think next they need to remove Bermuda Triangle (since it sits on valuable real estate) and put in some ProSlide "major slides"
I didn't really think that it was going to be a "big" new area i was just wondering if it even sits were the lazy river did but it looks like they moved it over so maybe they are trying to open up more room for something else in the future.
They've definitely taken the old lazy river out completely and this is going to replace it. It's taking a somewhat different course and area because there are a whole lot of new amenities and thematics to fit in. Like we noted earlier, it looks like they're basically rebuilding the entire midsection of the park.
I still say that the Bermuda triangle is one of the better slides they've got, though it's been several years since I've been to the park. However, if they take it out in favor of a couple of pro-slide tantrums, I might actually visit the place again one of these days.
I do not care for the "rumble strips" that they have during the course of the Bermuda Triangle.
I will be in the area this weekend. will try to get some close pictures.
PICS.. I could not get very close this time. LOL.. Had a lot of workers watching me..
Looks like they are getting close, but have alot of work to do in 30 days.
Ye those pics are awesome! You can tell that the river is definitely moved over. So basically the separated the water work for little kids and the is closer to the wave pool and that river moved back.. Look amazing. Thanks for the pics!
you bet! I will be back there 1 or 2 more times before they open, will take at least 1 last set of pics.
Went by WW this morning, gates were all locked and could not get very close, pictures show parking lot is clean,
you can see where they "landscaped" all the scrap rock and dirt north of parking lot. All the new mulch and trees and plants are gone.
So it looks like they will be ready saturday as planned....
Last week at my local McDonald's Restaurant, an offer for saving a few bucks on tickets to SDC. This week, an offer for saving $5 on tickets to Whitewater. Take a look: http://www.flickr.com/photos/juniordugan
Seems like a lot of the attractions received new names this year to fit in with the new theme.
Raintree Island is now Splashaway Cay
Splash Island is now Coconut Cove (I guess Worlds of Fun/Oceans of Fun didn't trademark that)
Tropical Twister is now Ohana Falls
Caribbean Plunge is now Pipeline Plunge
Surfquake Wave Pool is now Surf's Up Wave Pool
I have no desire to go to WW in Branson. IT's way too similar to the one in OKC. Anyone else been to the one in Oklahoma?
Believe it or not, the OK City Whitewater is a COPY of the Whitewater in Branson, which was the ORIGINAL Whitewater in a small chain of water parks SDC began in 1980. SDC had a business partner in this venture with outlets in OK City, Grand Prairie, TX, Atlanta, GA and a few other places if I am remembering correctly. SDC and the business partner had a disagreement...a falling out...and SDC sold off all of the Whitewater parks except for the Branson unit, which it continues to operate to this day.
Do they still manage the Hawaiian Falls chain of waterparks in Texas?
According to the HFEC site,,, No they are no longer affiliated with Hawaiian falls.
I guess they sold them off in 2006 according to the article I just found
Maybe since they redid it, it would be fun to go again, but they were nearly identical. A few things were in different places, but basically the same. Frontier city owns it now.
WWB and White Water Branson are not even remotely identical. If you look closely, I guess you can kind of tell that they were once built by the same people, but the attractions and layout at each park are very different from each other. WWB actually looks like it has more to do than the Branon park, but I'll bet on closer look it's not operated as nicely.
WWB has a really nice looking activity pool with a number of slides going into it and a large rock face. I wish WW Branson had more of that. The Branson park has received nicer slides/upgrades in the past decade though, I don't know when the last time WWB has been updated at all.
Here's a link to the google maps of WWB: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=white+water+bay&hl=en&ll=35.461008,-97.588825&spn=0.000721,0.001832&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=32.527387,86.572266&t=h&z=20
Looking at that picture, it does look like WW is taken care of much better than WWB. I do, however, like that the walkways aren't concrete at WWB. At least you can walk around without your feet blistering due to the heat of the concrete.
Not seeing the "OMG they're the same" that a few posters are talking about. I guess they're the "same" in the fact that they're waterparks, but it really ends there.
I should rephrase that.
I started going to both when they were carbon copies of one another.The layouts weren't the same but they had essentially the same things at that time!!.
Maybe it just turned me off the WW in Branson that I could go to one down the street. I don't know.
Anyway We are talking mid 80's here, so maybe I should give the Branson one another chance after 20+ years.
I remember using White Water branded tubes at the now long defunct Adventure River in Memphis. For some reason I want to say the water park you can now barely see from I 430 in North Little Rock was opened by the same partnership.
Ah, yes Wild River Country. Arkansas' largest water park! I don't know anything about a partnership, but it would not surprise me.
I noticed where Holiday World in Santa Claus, Indiana announced last week they are going to be building the world's longest water coaster for next year. What's interesting is that it will feature a six person circular raft with riders facing each other. This will be their second water coaster and will use the linear induction technology they also used in their first water coaster. WW needs a ride like a water coaster to work up some excitement.
that would be a great addition.. or maybe add it to SDC and tie it into lake silver?
I don't think a big water coaster like that would fit WW just yet, though I'd love to see it soon. Right now I want to see them add another good slide complex complete with some of the newer ProSlide creations such as a Tornado Alley or Tantrum or whatever they're called with the multiple funnels and bowls on each slide. I'm also anticipating a lot more heavy refurbishments of the park like what we saw with the lazy river this year. I'll bet the big kid's play structure gets it next along with the wave pool.
Sounds like the park is getting more attendance these days just judging by what I've heard people say. With this hot weather I wouldn't be surprised if they had their best year yet.
Rumors are HFEC is ready to pour more money into the place...
Why not move WW to CC open the OzCat, Roaring Falls, and the go cart tracks with new water rides and sell the WW property for a premium. The place could be Branson's own Schlitterbahn with lodging, restraunts, and maybe even a show.
Quote from: oldsdcer on August 13, 2011, 12:36:34 AM
Why not move WW to CC open the OzCat, Roaring Falls, and the go cart tracks with new water rides and sell the WW property for a premium. The place could be Branson's own Schlitterbahn with lodging, restraunts, and maybe even a show.
I wish they'd do this too. It'd be the best idea and fit Branson the most. I would love to see Celebration City open OzCat again, plus some other rides along with White Water. I really wish they kept Accelerator too, that was my favorite Space Shot. Back to White Water... yeah, still, this would be a great option.
^ & ^^, we threw that idea around for awhile, but it would definitely be a massively expensive operation for the chain in a time when the economy is in the tank and traffic to the parks is getting noticeably low. Plus, they've started putting some money into WW's current location again and are rumored to continue doing so until the park is essentially re-built where it stands. Doesn't look like they have any intention of moving the park anytime soon. It would have been a great concept though.
Quote from: shavethewhales on August 16, 2011, 02:27:45 PM
^ & ^^, we threw that idea around for awhile, but it would definitely be a massively expensive operation for the chain in a time when the economy is in the tank and traffic to the parks is getting noticeably low. Plus, they've started putting some money into WW's current location again and are rumored to continue doing so until the park is essentially re-built where it stands. Doesn't look like they have any intention of moving the park anytime soon. It would have been a great concept though.
Yeah, you're probably right. White Water hasn't given anything about something that's happening, so I'm still not expecting any big move.
Rumors are HFEC is ready to pour more money into the place...
[/quote]
Why is it that HFEC is so willing to pour more money into WW and of course DW but not SDC? I just don't understand why SDC gets left out.
Quote from: joshblakebran on August 18, 2011, 06:05:40 PM
Rumors are HFEC is ready to pour more money into the place...
Why is it that HFEC is so willing to pour more money into WW and of course DW but not SDC? I just don't understand why SDC gets left out.
[/quote]
In all fairness, SDC is not left out. HDH this year and RB last year. I know they're not massive new projects, but it is something. I see what you're saying though.
It all depends on where the chain forseas themselves making the most profit. Water parks seem to be coming back in style, judging by all the additions and new parks springing up around the country. WW was almost to a stage where they needed to update it or let it die before they started rebuilding it a couple of years ago. It still doesn't hold a candle to most parks, even those in the region, but that might change with a good slide tower and increased theming. A lot of people seem to be flocking to the water parks as cheaper alternatives to the big dry parks.
SDC on the other hand doesn't have as much potential to increase their revenue right now. Even if they spent millions on a big new ride they might see less attendance due to the number of people striking trips to SDC from their budgets. DW is in an area with more stable jobs I guess, or at least a much bigger market.
Quote from: shavethewhales on August 18, 2011, 08:20:07 PM
It all depends on where the chain forseas themselves making the most profit. Water parks seem to be coming back in style, judging by all the additions and new parks springing up around the country. WW was almost to a stage where they needed to update it or let it die before they started rebuilding it a couple of years ago. It still doesn't hold a candle to most parks, even those in the region, but that might changbe with a good slide tower and increased theming. A lot of people seem to be flocking to the water parks as cheaper alternatives to the big dry parks.
SDC on the other hand doesn't have as much potential to increase their revenue right now. Even if they spent millions on a big new ride they might see less attendance due to the number of people striking trips to SDC from their budgets. DW is in an area with more stable jobs I guess, or at least a much bigger market.
You know, I just read this and I don't see how there is much more of a stable job market than NWA. In fact things are picking up steam in retail and housing. Existing lot prices actually are ticking up from their bottom and gas is actually cheaper now from when this thread last posted in.