A new $2 Billion park was announced today for northeast Oklahoma. It is backed by the Mansion Entertainment Group from Branson. Currently, it is slated to open in 2026.
https://www.americanheartlandthemepark.com
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20230719039822/en/American-Heartland-Announces-2-Billion-Theme-Park-and-Resort-Development-in-Northeast-Oklahoma
I'm not going to hold my breath that it actually happens. If it does, that's cool. But it seems like in the last 20 years most big projects like this get announced and don't even get to the moving dirt phase, or at best move some dirt but stop short of going verticle with construction. 4,000+ new jobs in NE OK would be nice.
I'm curious if it will get SDC to accelerate their expansion at all or if they will continue on their seemingly slow methodical plans for expansion.
Quote from: Lampie on July 19, 2023, 01:23:56 PM
I'm curious if it will get SDC to accelerate their expansion at all or if they will continue on their seemingly slow methodical plans for expansion.
SDC had to have known that this announcement was happening; especially with the backing company being from Branson.
More and more I'm expecting SDC's announcement next august to be a larger long term plan like Dollywood typically does for their announcements. Hopefully we will hear more about the "planned unprecedented growth" that they kept teasing when talking about the parking lot remodel.
The initial problem with this is that it will have to be a local park. There is no infrastructure to support it (i.e., hotels and other amenities) in the immediate area. It could be a good thing for places like Joplin and Tulsa if they are able to draw visitors.
I don't think anyone who actually understands the industry is going to hold their breath about this. I think the result of this will be them building an RV park near grand lake and maybe some amenities like a small water park. Maybe they'll do OK with that, but most likely not since it's just not a big tourist area. There are a lot of Grand Lake people, but if you want to do well you need a really good location on the lake and it needs to be efficient and targeted to the local populace. This proposal is super generic. They want to take on Disneyworld on day 1. Very naïve to say the least.
The ownership group is... interesting. I almost don't want to get into it all, but just look up the Mansion businesses online and see if you can find much substance.
Much like Bells returning, I really don't see it happening either. It would be great if it did, but I will believe it when I see it. Of course the locals on Fakebook are all bought in believing it.
^very much this, I put it right up there with Bells returning with the likelihood of this happening. Especially on a Disney-esque scale. Seems to be a bit of a stretch.
Pie in the sky. For scaling up to this size it need to be closer to a major airport. TUL is 1 hr away and XNA is 1 1/2 hrs away.
That said, after having been to Puy du Fou in France and it's rather remote location, who knows? I have always thought a very similar park that developed major shows and attractions in and around American History could be successful. I would love for Sight and Sound to develop a new theater based on US history stories similar to their biblical based.
This isn't like Bell's at all though. The Bell family has no money, sense, or resources besides their IP which they have pretty much ruined. Regardless, they had a great deal on the table that Robby ruined by not understanding the first thing about business or the necessary politics to play to let the deal play out.
This proposal is backed by a bit of money. The owner of the Mansion group is apparent an ex-pizza hut franchisee and owns a few other things. He's probably worth ~$100 million at least, but I haven't looked him up too much yet. The Mansion Entertainment group is just a weird looking company from the outside looking in. They absolutely have the capacity to build something in Vinita just based on the amount of money at Gene's disposal. They could build a neat little amusement/water park like what Robby wanted to rebuild Bell's as. They could try to grow it organically into something and make Vinita/Grand Lake into a regional vacation destination. This $2 billion figure isn't going to happen though. They aren't even going to get half of that. I could believe they could raise a half billion, but even that would be tough.
I'm a bit skeptical based on the number of visitors they say they'll attract - 4.9 million?? SDC doesn't attract that many, SFOT doesn't attract that many, most seasonal amusement parks do not attract that many...
I think the idea of the park is a good one, something based around Route 66 and America's Heartland - so I'd definitely love to see it succeed. I just don't want to get my hope shattered again. Not sure why they didn't build it around Catoosa Oklahoma that would still give them that Route 66 tie, but also closer to Tulsa and the Hard Rock Casino (Land is probably a lot more reasonable for purchase in the Vinita area).
There seems to be several large-scale announcements happening in Oklahoma with the $300 Million OKANA Resort in OKC, the Harrah's Casino and Resort between OKC and Tulsa, and the Tulsa's Gathering Place expansion, etc. It will be interesting to see how and if everything comes to fruition.
Jay
Quote from: shavethewhales on July 19, 2023, 05:27:39 PM
The ownership group is... interesting. I almost don't want to get into it all, but just look up the Mansion businesses online and see if you can find much substance.
They seem to be good at press releases and big announcements, but I can't find much substance beyond that. Are their any film/tv projects that they've finished?
It's pretty bold to declare everything will be open in the fall of '26.
How to tell if a prophet is authentic: wait and see if their prophecy is fulfilled. In this case, it's not a long wait.
I thought it was interesting that Screamscape was saying they had doubts about the new park because they are building the RV park first.
I think it was a must to build the RV park first so the construction workers, etc. have a place to stay. There really isn't anywhere to stay in Vinita or relatively close so the RV park makes perfect sense.
I have my doubts, but maybe it will happen after all.
Jay
Anybody remember Grand Texas?
This is 2.0 if it's lucky
https://bigriverswaterpark.com/
^Yes, I've brought up Grand Texas a few times talking to people about this. Thing is, Grand Texas just got drained of money because they had to do YEARS of expensive civil projects just to get the site to support their proposed developments. They sold off a good deal of land and built an RV park and a water park + adventure park, so it wasn't a bust, but I doubt we'll ever see the long-ago promised theme park. Similar outcome as what could happen here, but in this case I just think they don't have enough money to do a fraction of what they are showing.
https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/business/2b-theme-park-planned-off-route-66-questions-and-answers/article_88de885e-25a1-11ee-b527-07b0e77564fe.html
Their funding source is the Pizza Hut guy. He is 90. They are crashing the project schedule seemingly to get something built before he passes. Since he's their only funding source, that means they probably have something like ~$100 million to work with IF he is throwing almost everything he has into it AND they are getting loans on top of that. They would need another $900 million in investment to build out anything like they have discussed, and that's still a billion short of what they threw out there.
At least it'll be a nice RV resort.
2B is a LOT of money for a attraction that is not a usual "destination" place. The question is will it be enough of a standalone draw to cover its expenses and infrastructure costs. Aside from the nearby lake and Tulsa an hour away, will it be a place people will want to return to time and again?. does it survive 3-5 years aftr opening.
I am a freak and I drive 3 hours one way several times a year to SDC. Most people aren't that loyal. This will not be a park you visit one day when going to the area. Maybe if you visit Tulsa.
The Amusement park industry is filled with "gonna be" projects that never go very far. Everything fits on paper and your imagination.. reality costs 10-20% more at least and 10-15% longer to do. I wish them luck, they will need it...
my two cents
Kevin
And doesn't Mansion also have a film studio planned for Branson that they announced in 2022? Perhaps that's getting rolled into the American Heartland development. All of this seems very ambitious with not a lot to show for it.
Quote from: KevinLong on July 24, 2023, 01:28:18 PM
2B is a LOT of money for a attraction that is not a usual "destination" place. The question is will it be enough of a standalone draw to cover its expenses and infrastructure costs. Aside from the nearby lake and Tulsa an hour away, will it be a place people will want to return to time and again?. does it survive 3-5 years aftr opening.
I am a freak and I drive 3 hours one way several times a year to SDC. Most people aren't that loyal. This will not be a park you visit one day when going to the area. Maybe if you visit Tulsa.
The Amusement park industry is filled with "gonna be" projects that never go very far. Everything fits on paper and your imagination.. reality costs 10-20% more at least and 10-15% longer to do. I wish them luck, they will need it...
my two cents
Kevin
Don't forget the burgeoning metro of NWA that's projected to near 1 million in 20 years(currently 600k)
Now, if this was a Tribe and it had a casino attached to it, I'd be more inclined to believe that some of it sees daylight.
I would have shot for the US 69/I 40 area. Why, major roads centered between Dallas/OKC/Tulsa/River Valley/NWA
Apparently Vinita rejected the annexation of this area on Tuesday evening. They aren't rejecting the whole proposed development, but several people expressed cutting down the area and doing it in steps. They kind of want Mansion to step up and actually build something to prove that they are the real deal before they sign off on everything. Or at least that was my take after skipping around the youtube video of the 4+ hour public hearing. Kind of bizarre that the annexation portion would be so controversial considering the area is pretty much empty. Glad people take local government seriously at least.
long way to go to get it done in two/three? years? They have stumbling blocks already and they haven't even pissed people off yet.... time will tell.
I do not think it would be too far off the mark to say that every quarter that fails to see actual groundbreaking puts them back at least 6 months on opening.
great Ideas sometimes just never happen....
my two cents
kevin
Yup much like Bells latest attempt in BA you are gonna have all the NIMBY people crying fits and it will kill this project.
Their representative lost me right off the bat when he referred to Disneyland as California Disney and said that it costs a family 10s of thousands of dollar to visit Disney. Yes, you can spend that much, but you can for sure visit for much less. We've never gotten close to that on our trips.
After watching more of it, the issue seems to be with how much the town is trying to annex. I didn't realize how far from the town the actual property is. The tow is trying to do fence line annexation where there are strips of land that are annexed along roads to connect the town with the property. They seem to be doing it along multiple roads and that is the main complaint. Will be interesting to see where it goes.
Annexation is a problem wherever it exists. And at least in Texas, there is "extra-territorial jurisdiction", where a city doesn't even have to annex property to exert zoning/planning control over it.
Here is the proposed annexation map.
I believe that that the orange area is the park and the red is unannounced development; rumors seem to be a golf course and cabins... not 100% sure though.
looks to me like the city is trying to grab up both sides of most major roads so they can get the tax money for any businesses alongside the road that may spring up. 300 foot easements would encompass most buildings and parking lots along the corridor.
got a long way to go before the first paying customer pulls into the amusement park lot.
Kevin
Quote from: mg on August 24, 2023, 04:16:32 PM
Their representative lost me right off the bat when he referred to Disneyland as California Disney and said that it costs a family 10s of thousands of dollar to visit Disney. Yes, you can spend that much, but you can for sure visit for much less. We've never gotten close to that on our trips.
After watching more of it, the issue seems to be with how much the town is trying to annex. I didn't realize how far from the town the actual property is. The tow is trying to do fence line annexation where there are strips of land that are annexed along roads to connect the town with the property. They seem to be doing it along multiple roads and that is the main complaint. Will be interesting to see where it goes.
Two days for a family of 4 at Disneyland/DCA will cost nearly 1k in tickets alone. 3nights at a near by hotel will nearly run 1k for a #$%@'n Best Western. Airfare? Allegiant will run 1k from XNA, American...$1,300 at least with baggage fees. Couple hundred bucks for a car rental. Insane prices for food. 10s of thousands??? No, but it could creep into the 5k range easy. Especially if you get into the whole Genie Plus add on stuff.
I'm kinda over Disney and apparently lots of others are as well.
So the annexation ultimately went through and the RV park has officially kicked off with a big ground breaking ceremony. Still a lot of questions in the air about this, but so far everything has gone well and they are on their way.
I remain skeptical that the park will ever reach the proportions they originally outlined, but I do believe they will get a park open in a few years. Will definitely want to visit before they struggle and end up closing. There are a lot of people in the area, and they have good access due to the turnpike, but I still say that without a major IP or something to draw people, it's just a random big theme park with a generic americana theme in the middle of nowhere.
Their main hope of creating a draw is simply building enough themselves to get big, but I still don't see where the $2 billion is going to come from...
At the same time, a lot of people are tired of Disney cramming IPs in their faces at every turn.
Quote from: shavethewhales on November 08, 2023, 11:50:06 AM
There are a lot of people in the area, and they have good access due to the turnpike, but I still say that without a major IP or something to draw people, it's just a random big theme park with a generic americana theme in the middle of nowhere.
Their main hope of creating a draw is simply building enough themselves to get big, but I still don't see where the $2 billion is going to come from...
Are we already forgetting how SDC came about and put Branson on the map??? Nobody would have started any show in Branson if SDC wasn't here because shows alone don't draw people in.
This park is just outside Vinita, 45 minutes from Tulsa, on Route 66, next to the I-44 Turnpike, and West of Grand Lake. That is NOT the "middle of nowhere"! Route 66 attracts thousands to millions of people every year from all around the globe and brings in more tourists than anything else in Oklahoma.
As they have said, the company already has the money.
Plus, like History Buff said, everyone is tired of Disney and their Woke ideology. We need more companies who are against the woke regime and the creators of this park have already said that they are extremely anti-woke.
There is absolutely no way this park won't thrive because of all these factors!
Branson was well on it's way long before SDC got to be very big at all. In fact, by the time FITH opened in 1972 there were already a ton of theatres and famous performers calling Branson home. The damming of Table Rock Lake is actually what spurred the area into being a tourist town, with the country artists driving it after that. SDC grew at a steady pace, but it's hard to say when it really got "big". I'd say the 90's?
The AH park certainly does have a decent location in terms of access. I40 is a major artery and will make it easier for people from several surrounding states to get there. It's still not surrounded by much though other than Grand Lake. The thing is, there are already plenty of established parks around the country and plenty of lakes, so what will make them stand out?
The anti-woke stuff won't bring people in. People don't go on expensive vacations to protest Disney. I'm sure they have some things in the works however. They will surely roll out some characters, movies, etc somewhere in the timeline of this development. We'll see if they catch any eyeballs though...
Anyway, next time I'm running up to Branson I'm going to try and get off the highway to get a few construction shots. Probably not much to see from the road yet, but would be interesting to see how much activity is going on by the entrance. I imagine they have a big setup by now for the contractor staging since they'll be there for a few years.
Quote from: Dewayne on November 15, 2023, 10:39:10 AM
Quote from: shavethewhales on November 08, 2023, 11:50:06 AM
There are a lot of people in the area, and they have good access due to the turnpike, but I still say that without a major IP or something to draw people, it's just a random big theme park with a generic americana theme in the middle of nowhere.
Their main hope of creating a draw is simply building enough themselves to get big, but I still don't see where the $2 billion is going to come from...
Are we already forgetting how SDC came about and put Branson on the map??? Nobody would have started any show in Branson if SDC wasn't here because shows alone don't draw people in.
This park is just outside Vinita, 45 minutes from Tulsa, on Route 66, next to the I-44 Turnpike, and West of Grand Lake. That is NOT the "middle of nowhere"! Route 66 attracts thousands to millions of people every year from all around the globe and brings in more tourists than anything else in Oklahoma.
As they have said, the company already has the money.
Plus, like History Buff said, everyone is tired of Disney and their Woke ideology. We need more companies who are against the woke regime and the creators of this park have already said that they are extremely anti-woke.
There is absolutely no way this park won't thrive because of all these factors!
I'm seeing a lot of red flags with this project. 1st, how is the park fully funded? According to sources, Gene Bicknell's net worth is estimated to be around $240 million. The press releases say the park is all privately funded from one source, Gene. Where is 2 billion dollars coming from? Also, Gene is 91 years old. What happens if he dies before this is complete? Other little things really make me question this operation. Things like cheap signage for the RV park construction. A 2 billion dollar operation is using PVC pipe and zip ties for signage?
does anyone know any real current facts about this Park? its been pretty quiet out there lately
I found this comment from July of last year --
Dennis Speigel, a consultant and former president of the largest international amusement park trade group, said there just aren't enough people in northeast Oklahoma to justify this size of a project. He also said market saturation and too much competition will limit the American Heartland Theme Park's potential.
Speigel said the 4.9 million visitors per year that American Heartland is projecting is unrealistic. KOCO 5 checked on that.
The 4.9 million visitors would make American Heartland the 10th most popular park in the country – ahead of both SeaWorld parks and all of the Six Flags. Silver Dollar City, which is in Branson and about two hours away from where Oklahoma's new park is planned to be, does about 2.2 million visitors a year.
4.9 million visitors seems a stretch to me at least for the first few years... but I could be wrong..
I now see it going up about the same as that Dogpatch revival project a few years ago... and Bells returning...
I've been watching from the FB groups in the area that are tracking the progress. Construction has stopped. They put out erosion control and the contractor staging area a few months ago, then the contractor pulled off. Original rumor was that the concrete batch plant would show up in March and then construction would get more underway - that hasn't happened. The latest news updates include a blurb saying that costs have increased and they are currently working with the state to get funding...
I know there's a lot of utility/civil engineering that has to take place off-site just to support the ability of the site itself to be developed, but that is why these projects often have a 5-10 year timeframe instead of 2-3. They have made it through a few hoops regarding zoning and some infrastructure approvals, but there's still at least a year's worth of effort before they get to where they can actually move much dirt. Theoretically they could build PART of the RV park, but it would be pretty underwhelming.
We'll see where they finally land, but I'm guessing they end up with a small RV park, a small lake resort, and MAYBE a small theme park.
I have been hearing that a contractor as sued them for $5m for unpaid work. That could be a reason why construction has stopped. Seems to be turning out to be a shady deal perhaps?
It was a design consultant, FORREC, who has famously designed a number of high profile attractions. https://nondoc.com/2024/05/09/company-claims-vinita-theme-park-developer-owes-5-5-million-for-unpaid-work/
For a design consultant to file this kind of action over this much unpaid work, there must have been some serious issues behind the scenes. I work as a civil consultant myself, so I know that amount represents a lot of people working for a long time. FORREC probably designed most of the park and came up with all the renderings we've seen so far. When Mansion comes out talking about not paying until they have "reviewed", that sounds like a huge ton of crap.
I think this is the official start of the wheels coming off. Of course, the whole shenanigans with them putting up orange fencing and then leaving the site for six months and counting was an obvious tell. Oh yeah, they need to redesign the RV park that they already posted videos of them starting work on. ::)
We learned early in life that "willing suspension of disbelief" was the key to reading fictional stories.
Today we see many examples of people who can't wait to throw their disbelief over a cliff any time something tickles their ears in a pleasing way.
They need to drop this and focus on their current assets. Renovate the Mansion and fix the leaks in the roof. Make it a premiere destination that hosts more than 75 year old artists and dance competitions. Then move on to the film studio they are supposed to be opening. They have tried to bite off more than they can chew and it shows. Bicknell must have money he needs to spend. .
Interestingly, they posted an apology on their social media regarding the delays and missed payments to FORREC and Crossland. They say they are moving forward and will resolve the issues.
They worded it pretty weirdly though with a backhand comment against people who are doubting them, lol. Definitely don't have a PR firm working with them yet. Best way to squash doubt is to actually get things moving.
https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/business/2-5-billion-vinita-theme-park-to-be-delayed-years-but-developers-say-they-are/article_79447acc-8b47-11ef-899e-5bfe02a623f0.html?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR08SZc5vcchdefBVZ35JnaYXvKkWXqs7t4s6piynbSHe79PlXYTnD5p4Co_aem_xM4ODIjhO2GrN4MqyN55Tg
Just in case you guys didn't see: they have now formally stated that the park will indeed take a few years longer to bring to reality than originally stated. To the surprise of absolutely no one, lol.
Very little chance this project survives. They need the OK legislature to approve a stupidly specific bill that will help them pay for infrastructure and off-site utilities to support this development. That involves things like upsizing the Vinita sewage plant, upsizing their water distribution system, and presumably increasing HWY 60 to a 4-lane up to the park.
They apparently had no plan for any of this and assumed that as soon as they announced the project, the state would just do it all for them. Between that and apparently not understanding their own RV park plans before STARTING CONSTRUCTION, one has to assume that they are unqualified to get this done - to say the least.
The founder of Mansion is currently 92 years old and is still the driving force behind this apparently. I predict this project will die one of two ways: either the founder passes away first and the project team disbands due to the project being unsustainable without his money, or the OK legislature doesn't approve public funds for the infrastructure they need in Vinita.
A guy I know who owns a car dealership in Vinita is somehow involved in all this I believe, not sure how. But he insisted a year ago or so that it was going to happen. Yea right.
Quote from: Okiebenz on October 28, 2024, 08:41:33 PMA guy I know who owns a car dealership in Vinita is somehow involved in all this I believe, not sure how. But he insisted a year ago or so that it was going to happen. Yea right.
You can always trust a car dealer to tell you the honest truth, right?
Supposedly the property has had foreclosure motions filed against it in court. The two companies that previously filed liens are now looking to force a sale to get payment. Mansion needs to figure this out yesterday. The lien apparently had a clause that charged interest DAILY.
Looks like they stopped paying for/didn't renew their website hosting...
https://www.americanheartlandthemepark.com
None of this is any surprise.
I don't think they've updated FB in a year either. That means they've let all their lower level people go. Never heard about any resolution to the lawsuits, but surely that has been wrapped up by now? They probably bankrupted the AH business to reduce their legal exposure/losses for the lawsuits. The contractors/designers they stiffed can only recover the money that AH had on hand.
I can't believe they couldn't even get the RV park going...
Quote from: sdcfan88 on July 19, 2023, 09:06:25 PM^very much this, I put it right up there with Bells returning with the likelihood of this happening. Especially on a Disney-esque scale. Seems to be a bit of a stretch.
As I had always said lol but indeed I was surprised that even the RV park portion of this failed too.