So, over on the Dollywood sub board a small debate broke out on whether Dollywood gets a lot more love than SDC. I contest that there might be a very small difference but as big as it is assumed to be. A lot of we need to get a list of attractions and theater/showbuildings at the end of 1985.
SDC Attractions Pre 1986:
American Plunge Log Flume (circa 1981, replaced Jim Owens Ozark Float Trip)
Flooded Mine (circa 1968)
Grandfather's Mansion (circa 1968, formerly Sam's Mining Shack)
Frisco Silver Dollar Line Train
Huck Finn's Hideaway(formerly Herman the Hermit's Tree House)
Lost River of the Oazrks (under construction or opened in 1985, replaced Rube Dugan's Diving Bell)
Marvel Cave Tour with funicular back up to top
Fire in the Hole
Tom Sawyer's Landing (circa 1984, Consisting of Becky's Carousel and rope towers and nets)
Runaway Ore Cart
Petting Zoo
SDC Theaters, Stages, Showbuildings Pre 1986:
Echo Hollow Amphitheater (cap. 4,000, circa 1983)
Silver Dollar Saloon (circa 1973)
The Boatworks Theater
Riverfront Playhouse (cap. 600, circa 1979, former names Courthouse Theater, Gaslight Theater)
Gazebo
Dockside Theater
McHaffie's Homestead Front Porch
Dollywood Attractions Pre 1986
Blazing Fury
Flooded Mine
Country Fair Mills Log FLume
Inventor's Mansion
Butter Churn Trabant flat ride
Red Baron Flying Squadron spinner
Grand Ballroom (ball and germ pit)
Malfuntion Junction Bumber Cars
Mountain Swinger
Cloud Grabber
Carousel
Petting Zoo
Dollywood Theaters, Stages, Showbuildings Pre 1986:
Silver Dollar Saloon
Magic Show
Help Fill in the Gaps!!!!!
Additions and Changes to SDC and Dollywood Post 1985
1986
SDC:
off year
Dollywood:
Rivertown Rampage, Smoky Mountain Rampage, Back Porch Theater, Aunt Granny's restuarant, Tennessee Mountain Home(dolly childhood home replica)
Inventor's Mansion converted to Dolly Museum Rags to Riches
Butter Churn Trabant removed
1987
SDC:
Wilderness Water Toboggan
Dollywood:
DayDream Ridge opens with Mountain Sidewinder Water Tobboggan. Dolly gains candy shop and glass blowing shop that SDC already has. new burger eatery
1988
SDC:
Land of Forgotten Crafts?
Dollywood:
Celebrity Theater with a capacity of 1,739
Five rides added to Fun Country Area including a Zampera Balloon Race
1989
SDC:
Tom Sawyer's landing upgraded to include Balloons, ferris wheel and kid's coaster
Town Square got the Victorian Treatment (public hated it)
Dollywood:
Thunder Express added, relocated half of SFSTL's dual mine trains
1990
SDC:
Flooded Mine renovated into a shooter
Furniture Factory added sometime between here and 1993
Dollywood:
Antique Dentzel Carousel relocated from Lancaster PA
Gaslight Theater with capacity of 600
1991
SDC:
?????
Dollywood:
Eagle Mountain Sanctuary
Wings of America Theater
Valley Theater
1992
SDC:
?????
Dollywood:
Butteryfly Emporium
Imagination Station kids interactive area(Barnwood Theater conversion)
Streetshow area
Bakery
1993
SDC:
Thunderation opens at a 7 million dollar cost
Dollywood:
Fun Country Renovated with ferris wheel, scrambler, tilt a whirl
Balloon Ride relocated
1994
SDC:
Opera House opens with capacity of 1,0000
Dollywood:
Gaslight namechange to Heartsong multimedia presentation about Dolly
1995
SDC:
?????
Dollywood:
Jukebox Junction with Rockin Roadway mini car ride
1996
SDC:
?????
Dollywood:
ThunderRoad Simulator Ride
1997
SDC:
Geyser Gulch added
Dollywood:
kiddie nick show and eateries and shops
Flooded Mine closes
1998
SDC
?????
Dollywood:
Daredevil Falls added at former Flooded Mine site
Thunder Express closed and relocated to Magic Springs
1999
SDC:
Buzzsaw Falls water coaster opens
Dollywood:
Tennesse Tornado steel Arrow Coaster opens
2000
SDC, WW:
Red Gold Building with capacity for 1,800 opens
Dollywood:
Daydream Ridge converted to Dreamland Forest with Children's Mountain Themed interactive area
2001
SDC:
Wildfire, 14 million B&M steel coaster with 5 inversions
Dollywood, SC:
Splash Country opens
2002
SDC, WW:
Branson USA purchased
Dollywood, SC:
Thunder Road simulator changed to Smoky Mountain Wilderness adventure
New Dolly Museum
2003
SDC ,WW, CC:
Celebration City Opens with Ozark Wildcat, a GCI woodie and Jack Rabbit , an E&F Miler coaster. supposedly 40 million put into the opening of Celebration City
Wilderness Water Tobboggan overhauled and renamed Waterworks Waterboggan
BuzzSaw Falls closes at end of season
Dollywood, SC:
Imagination Station converted to special events center
2004
SDC , CC, WW:
Runaway Ore Cart closes
Dollywood, SC:
Thunderhead Gap opens with Thunderhead, a GCI woodie as the anchor
Counrty Fair Falls log flume removed along with 4 other rides
2005
SDC, CC, WW:
Powder Keg Opens useing parts of Buzzsaw Falls track
Dollywood, SC
Country Fair area renovated with 10 new rides
2006
SDC, CC, WW
Grand Exposition opens with Zamperla Ride package
Dollywood, SC :
Timber Tower opens, Huss topple tower flat ride along with Lunberjack Lifts, Beaver Creek Boat Float and Lil Loggers Landing
2007
SDC, CC, WW:
Giant Barn Swing, a S&S Screaming Swing (supposedly chosen over a topple tower or giant discovery on surveys) and surrounding High Low Silos and childrens activities
Dollywood, SC:
Mystery Mine opens, A highly themed Gerstlauer eurofighter with two vertical lifts.
RECESSION HITS
2008
SDC, CC, WW:
Midwest Living Culinary Arts School
Roaring Falls at Celebration City
Tom Sawyers Landing closed, Balloons and carousel removed, 2009 attraction teased
Celebration City closure at end of season announced
Dollywood, SC:
River Battle opens , a Mack Splash Battle
2009
SDC, WW:
work stalls on Tom Sawyer replacement, new attraction delayed a year due to financial considerations but Tom and Huck's River Blast announced
Dollywood, SC:
new shows, another retheme of simulation ride to 4D
third party, upcharge zip line course added.
2010
SDC, WW:
Tom And Huck River Blast opens
Dollywood, SC
Adventure Mountain ropes courses opens
2011
SDC, WW:
Half Dollar Holler childrens play area opens with return of carousel
Aloha River at White Water
Dollywood, SC:
Dreamland Forest converted to Owen's Farm and adds Barn Stormer, S&S Giant Swing and children's play area
2012
SDC, WW:
?????
Dollywood, SC:
Wild Eagle, B&M Wing coaster
Timber Tower removed after a time of SBNO
Dolly buys the Zip Line
2013
SDC, WW:
Outlaw Run, Wooden hybrid with inversions by Rocky Mountain Coaster.
Dollywood, SC:
shows changes and what not
River Rush Water Coaster at Splash Country
2014
SDC, WW:
Geyser Gulch closes
KaPau Plummet added to White Water
Dollywood:
Firechaser Express replaces Adventure Mountian. A gerstlauer trick track coaster with milder launches.
2015
SDC, WW:
Fireman's Landing replaces Gyser Gulch, relocation and retheming of a few of Celebration City's rides with the S&S Shot Tower as the feature and reintroduction of Balloons ride from storage.
Dollywood, SC:
DreamMore Resort opens
2016
SDC, WW:
Coconut Cove at White Water
Dollywood, SC:
Lightning Rod , launched Woodie by RMC. lots of downtime, plagued with issues.
Splash Country adds Tailspin Racer mat racer slides
2017
SDC, CC:
Time Traveler, Mack launched spinning coaster with inversions annouced for 2018
Addition of what appears to be the Osborne Lights from Disney for Christmas.
Dollywood
Drop Line, 200ft. Funtime drop tower replace void left by Timer Tower.
no announcements at this time.
please help fill in the gaps that I have with the time line.
Need dates for White Water additions post 1995 and after Splash Country opening
From this basic outline that's to be tweaked, outside of larger investments in Splash Country compared to White Water and the addition of DreamMore, if you include the Celebration City investment, the spend isn't far off or lopsided. Dollywood appeared light on show buildings and they beefed up in the early days but SDC had added a massive Echo Hollow just prior the conversion of the Tennessee park to Dollywood.
Each had swings and misses, SDC with Buzzsaw Falls and Dolly with Timber Tower and Adventure Mountain have very short lives.
The recession delayed the SDC version of Mystery Mine and allowed HFE to grow out of love with the concept. Dolly needed a "Powder Keg" and a replacement for Adventure Mountain which wasn't cutting it for whatever reasons. Branson lost it's two new coasters they added to Celebration City, while relocating others and selling some off. When you add the loss of those two and HFE using the Gerstlauer to fill in a need at Dollywood after getting delayed at SDC has created a balance issue. I don't feel that Dollywood is getting more. The recession just threw the balance off. As I have pointed out, they love buying two rides per manufacturer at a time and splitting them with SDC and Dolly, SDC seems to get the first one.
Will there be a push to close the gap? Will a redevelopment of the CC site into a Branson resort even that score. Would that led to a new water park that would replace the much older White Water with a modern equal to Splash County?
Does anyone know last years attendance totals for SDC to compare to Dollywood's?
So again, the Recession hit Branson hard while Pigeon Forge didn't seem to miss a beat. They had to overcome some duds at Dolly more recently than SDC. Will HFE ever catch SDC up on the coaster count. A standard non inverting woodie is a glaring omission and a GCI or GG could be had for well under 10 million. Since Dollywood got a Funtime ride, will SDC. A Star Flyer would be a solid addition for under 5 million considering the lake view it would give. Could we see a make up Gerstlauer added and give us our dive coaster like the new coaster for Knotts Berry Farms. Or will we get my preference of a drop track coaster from someone.
What we do know, compact steel coasters have come a long way the past decade.
Time Traveler is technically a 2018 add for SDC. Lights are the only 2017
Quote from: HumphreyHawk on August 22, 2017, 08:27:12 AM
Time Traveler is technically a 2018 add for SDC. Lights are the only 2017
That's why I said announced for 2018
The only difference really in major additions is that missing Gerstlauer that should have replaced the Waterworks Waterboggin and the loss of Ozcat and minor rides withthe Celebration City closure.
Now if Dolly doesn't get a Mack anytime soon , that would make up some ground. That may give SDC a chance to gain lost ground if next year's addition is a Fireman's landing type area without a coaster. I doubt that is the case and it'll have some type of coaster or major ride considering the Buyin-N-Twos pattern.
With Branson growing again, it's time to do something with the CC property or put it back on the market.
Great discussion! And well done on the research.
Whew! Nice job on the list and the research there! I'm thoroughly impressed.
There are a few things I'd like to note, if I can. (and honestly, not trying to be a stinker here. hehe)
2007- the year that Mystery Mine opens, not only did that add that coaster, but it was also a large area expansion, adding in several shops, restaurants and other items to support the area.
2008- Dollywood also adds the Wilderness Pass area in addition to their version of Riverblast. I'm not sure if this is when they finally completed the loop or not, but the entire area is much bigger than, say, Grand Expo, as can been seen with the later additions of Firechaser Express and Wild Eagle into it, along with a number of shops, eateries, and other things to do. This was a major expansion project all on it's own.
Between Thunderhead Gap, Timber Canyon, and Wilderness Pass Dollywood added in enough areas in expansion that would easily more than equal half of Silver Dollar City. That's big, and SDC hasn't done anything that remotely comes close to that sort of expansion. Grand Expo is nice, but it's still a very small area in comparison.
We can also go with a simple metric as well. Since 2000 the years that each did NOT have some sort of addition:
SDC: 2002, 2004, 2009, 2012, 2016 (2008 and 2014 is iffy),
Dollywood: 2003, 2013 (2009 is iffy and not sure I count the resort in 2015)
And the number of major additions (e.g. roller coasters) isn't even close. SDC had 7 (counting Ozark Wildcat and the refurbushment that was Powder Keg) while Dollywood had 9, and most of those were of a much larger scale than what SDC added. That's also counting Expo as an addition at SDC while not counting the Country Fair revamp at Dollywood, even though they are almost the same thing.
So that's all the public stuff. Having worked in the park, I attended a few meetings where they would talk about future plans and attractions coming. It was openly acknowleded in those meetings that more money was spent at Dollywood and more investment was made there. I did hear a few times from people "in the know" that they knew SDC was lower on the chain than Dollywood in about everything, that it was no longer the center of the company but that Dollywood was the "prize"- and as it should be since it generates far more guests and $$ than SDC does. (more than twice as much in fact, closer to 3 times the volume)
This is an interesting topic and you've put a lot of work into listing it all out, but I still have to say that the background line of thought here is silly.
These two parks aren't like two children fighting over equal inheritance. They are separate businesses opportunities in completely separate markets with dealing with different client bases and market forces. When HFEC was a much smaller company, DW was literally just a little clone of SDC, but those days are behind us. I enjoy the fact that they obviously still do a lot of joint contracts and test out different concepts and manufacturers between the parks, but at the end of the day the company invests in what they think will work for the specific target at each location.
Not to mention the fact that Dolly has her own split-off company that represents her business interests. I'm not sure how it works within the HFEC structure, but obviously Dolly and her name recognition is a big part of getting Dollywood built up more over the last decade or so. That and the fact that it is closer to millions more people.
We are fortunate that HFEC is still investing so much into Branson. The CC debacle was a big setback for them, not to mention how hard the economic downturn hurt this area specifically. We already talk a lot about how Branson is geographically challenged as it is - it's sort of close to a lot of things but not really. It's still a ways off from being a destination that people truly fly in to see, and with the fading of the Branson theaters and rise of more basic ride-based attractions it is in danger of falling back into being a regional attraction like the Wisconsin Dells.
This year SDC will have a combined total of nearly $50 million spent on it. That is a staggering figure. It's not all being spent on rides like at DW - but we are getting an incredible first of it's kind roller coaster AND a huge Christmas expansion that I predict people will love. SDC also has a real fight with expanding its parking lots and the road infrastructure leading to the park. One of the reasons cited for the closing of CC was the halting of the highway project that runs close to the park. It's been normal for a long time to wait in miles-long lines to get to the park on busy days... and they're trying to grow the park by 100's of thousands in attendance every year?
Lots of obstacles in SDC's way, so I think they are doing amazing with what they have done. DW has had a lot of opportunities, and quite frankly I think they've squandered a lot of them no matter how much money they spent. I'm much more interested in execution at the parks than I am about dollars spent.
Quote from: shavethewhales on August 22, 2017, 11:59:13 AM
at the end of the day the company invests in what they think will work for the specific target at each location.
We are fortunate that HFEC is still investing so much into Branson.
with the fading of the Branson theaters and rise of more basic ride-based attractions it is in danger of falling back into being a regional attraction like the Wisconsin Dells.
Good thoughts Shave.
I think the three statements I quoted say a lot- about what's real, about what we don't necessarily like to be real, and about what we're afraid of. There's a lot of truth in them, some that we don't like to admit or want to face. I know I don't like them, but I can't disagree with them.
I'm hoping that in the long run the last 2 statements end up being completely wrong and we see the opposite happen.
Shave hit up on something that's kinda obvious int the early days and period of just leading up to Dollywood. It was a mini me of SDC. Dollywood repurposes place at a greater clip than SDC.
As for the rest of the High Road, you can forget it. It will not happen. the best thing is for 76 to be upgraded and the interchange where it it meets redone to take out the bottleneck of the intersection. The lights have to go.
You can argue all you want, when it comes to major rides it's still one for one before and after the recession.
I'm not getting into counting shops and eateries or the entertainment offerings which are plenty at each park
that is the biggest thing that HFE needs to concentrate on with the state, county , and city gov's, to improve the road getting to the park to eliminate the log jam back to the IHOP that most likely makes a lot of family's turn away. Spending three hours getting from Shepard of the Hills Expressway to the parking lots just is unpleasant. Not including the effect that it has on Shepard of the Hills Theater, which I am sure assisted in its reduce attendance before it was closed. The Highroad help get you around Branson and the 76 Jam, but you still have to contend with the jam from there to the lots.
We have season passes and live about 90 minutes away. I refuse to go on a Saturday because of the long line to get in. There have been times when we have turned around on a Sunday if the traffic is backed up to the high road. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Also SDC is a tiny, tiny park in terms of acreage. OTC is miserable most of the time just due to all the people packed in like sardines
It's been about three years since I've been to the park but from the discussion it seems the traffic is getting worse. Is the traffic already backed up if you head out there by 8:30 or is this a later in the morning thing? Any better to come in from the south? I'm in agreement that the park growth will stall if the parking and traffic isn't addressed.
If I can't be there at rope drop or after noon on a Sat or Sun, I always come from Kimberling City. Of course, it's been years I've been on a Saturday.
Quote from: Graybeard on August 25, 2017, 01:11:53 PM
It's been about three years since I've been to the park but from the discussion it seems the traffic is getting worse. Is the traffic already backed up if you head out there by 8:30 or is this a later in the morning thing? Any better to come in from the south? I'm in agreement that the park growth will stall if the parking and traffic isn't addressed.
Traffic at or before 830 isnt bad, BUT dont wait any longer.. it get busy in a hurry... worse on sat than sunday...
I suspect it will be so crowded next year I am considering buying the season trail blazer passes
QuoteWe have season passes and live about 90 minutes away. I refuse to go on a Saturday because of the long line to get in. There have been times when we have turned around on a Sunday if the traffic is backed up to the high road. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Also SDC is a tiny, tiny park in terms of acreage. OTC is miserable most of the time just due to all the people packed in like sardines
Seems to me like a lot of the bottleneck is when you get to the park itself. They are filling 1 lot at a time. If they were to fill 2 lots simultaneously it would take more trams but would assist in draining the plug much quicker. Example, fill the main lot and the lot across the street (5?) at the same time during peak, break the line into 2 at the last min. This may be a bad idea in the early AM but 11-2 would make sense. Once you have drained the main backup you go back to one lot until its full then go to the other. The lots across Indian Point Rd and the lots between could be used in this way. The inability of the general public to negotiate a parking lot and successfully find a spot (expediently) amazes me. You would think they were asking everyone to parallel park at times with the speed they slow down to when it comes time to actually find a slot.
Honestly if they'd direct traffic to specific spots instead of the free for all that they do now it would be much faster
QuoteHonestly if they'd direct traffic to specific spots instead of the free for all that they do now it would be much faster
Agreed.
I get really frustrated sometimes at the parking situation, even the preferred parking line seems to drag on as well.
I think they need to have a guy walking up and down that line with a hat on that says " Questions?" and he is the guy you have to ask. Often I think they demand the attendant give them the cliffs notes version to SOTH novel via spoken word before they will drive on.