Shave has put a killer collection of photos together from his recent trip to SDC. One of the photos is of Grandfather's Mansion, and he speculates because of the ADA regulations for the handicapped getting amped up, that perhaps it won't be long before the mansion closes! HOw do you feel about Grandfather's Mansion? I first went through it back in the summer of 1970 as a kid. A few years later while working at SDC, one of my duties was to sweep and clean the mansion and treehouse every morning prior to park opening. I have fond memories of the mansion, I would hate to see it go. Chime in, let's hear from you...come on...
Keeping GM open denies access to it to a small percentage of the population. This is inevitable. The fact is that ADA compliance still doesn't open EVERYPLACE up to everyone. What of people comfined to iron lungs or in traction? People who are on life support? People who live 10,000 miles away and can't afford tickets to get there? ADA is a feel-good measure. Unless we die suddenly, most of us will end up in a condition which will prevent us from doing GM. When she was needing her hip replacement revised, my wife couldn't do GM. She, as we all will have to, accepted the loss--we couldn't know at the time that it was temporary.
The other fact is that closing GM because it can't be made ADA compliant denies it to EVERYONE. That is spiteful childishness: "I can't play with your ball, so I am going to throw it away so you can't play with it either."
There are places I can't go and activities I can't do. Far be it from me to demand that those places and be closed or ruined simply to makes my grapes less sour.
Well lets hope the grandfather's manison can be "Grandfathered" in..
I would hate to lose another "original" attraction.. >:(
Even if the law comes out and says existing structure 20 or 30 or 40 years old,,,, the mansion will still qualify!!
It's pure speculation on my part, but I've thought for awhile now that GM is on it's last legs. ADA aside, it's a small attraction that not many people even seem to know about that doesn't offer much these days relative to SDC's other attractions, so you have a low benefit for the cost to maintain it. Then there's insurance and general safety concerns with the obvious crazy floor and the dangerous stair case down to it. We've seen other attractions close down for the same general reasons in the past few years.
They've done some upkeep recently, so I assume it'll be around for a little while longer, but it's seasons are surely numbered. Hopefully they can rebuild it again into something new and exciting eventually. There's probably a way to keep the sloped floor even with the new regs. if they build a bypass around it or something.
I agree. GM should not be closed down! I am sorry if something prevents you from going thru its magical awesomeness. That is truly a downer. But whats an even bigger downer is if everyone stops going through it. For many many years it has entertained masses of people and continues to do so. Should I find myself in a child carrying state that means I cant ride the rollercoasters. So should I pitch a fit and shut the rollercoasters down because I cant ride them? No.
Upon further investigation, if you are too large to fit in the restraints cant ride certain rides. Should those be shut down also? Is it fair their circumstance does not allow them to ride those certain rides? Or how about the guest with prostetics not able to ride the giant swing? Lets shut that down also due to being fair.
Seriously a line needs to be drawn. I am sorry if your circumstance does not allow you to go through GM and you are missing out on its coolness. Instead of looking at what you cant do, look at what you can do. There is so much open to those who are in predicaments beyond control. SDC has done great finding a way to open so many of their rides to everyone. Lets say your in a wheel chair and want to ride FITH. Find an attendent let them know whats up enter thru the exit with a friend to help you get on ride. It is that easy. Please do not shut down GM. There is no reason for it.
Grandfather's Mansion is a "gravity house" attraction. It is an expanded and remodeled project that we enjoy today. It originally was known as "Slantin' Sam the Miner's Shack." The tilted room on the ground floor is the original "Slantin' Sam." Go to your search engine and type in "gravity house," and see what pops up. There are many other attractions across the country and around the world that feature many of GM's novelty gags. I stumbled across a site that also told the history of gravity houses, also known as anti-gravity houses, or mystery houses. Perhaps some of you more computer technical savvy folks can post a link or two to some of these sites so others can enjoy them too.
I posted the links several months ago.
Here is one to start with:
http://www.sandlotscience.com/MysterySpots/Mystery_Spots_1.htm (http://www.sandlotscience.com/MysterySpots/Mystery_Spots_1.htm)
http://www.dafe.org/attractions/history/tilthouse/tilthouse.php (http://www.dafe.org/attractions/history/tilthouse/tilthouse.php)
I'll see if I can find the other post tonight...
The new 2012 ADA laws are tough this time. It is just not places like SDC, but restaurants; all business buildings; hotels/motels; mini strip malls, etc. etc.
I went to a conference earlier this year about the new 2012 ADA laws and it is going to cost every business lots of money to be "in accordance". It will end up changing many things or a business may have to close due to the costs. I think we have come a long way in ensuring that as much as possible is accessible to anyone no matter, but I do agree it has now getting out of control. On the hotel/motel side, all pools have to be redone completely and you must have so many ADA rooms based on the total rooms you have. So next year I am having to add 3 more ADA rooms and have all rooms with full ADA kits. I can't see how this is going to keep costs down for the hotel/motel business with all that we have to comply to now. Not only that, I have to rent out every available room that is not ADA before I can rent to someone that does not need it unless only rooms I have. So, I have 66 rooms, 3 are ADA now....then add 3 more; I don't rent the ADA rooms I do have that often anyway so......this is tough. I will be finding out more on the hospitality side the next few months to see if anything has changed. PLEASE keep GM!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am all for helping those who dont have a voice. It is great. But I have a voice too an I can hollar loud. No reason to get rid of GM. I am angered with this speculation. Its sparked quite a chord within me. ARG!
Kinda along the same lines as what Missin said. If they close GM because of the handicapped (wheelchairs, crutches, etc.), then shouldn't the rollercoasters be shut down because of people with heart conditions, or because they are too short, or can't ride because of any of the other safety rules? There is no way to make everything seem fair for those with health problems without it not being fair for those of perfect health. I had a weird inner ear thing going on over the summer and I had a tough time going thru GM because of it. Just because I couldn't do it, I didn't demand they shut the doors so nobody else could do it either. I would hate it if GM closed :(
Glad to see everyone in agreement here. I can't stand the thought of losing this type of attraction, particularly Grandfather's Mansion. Bring back the Bell and make it accessible (if it wasn't already; I can't remember that detail) to appease the PTB.
If we lose Grandfather's Mansion to the gov'nment, I'm jumping off the biggest ridge in Christian county.
;)
It only takes one person to ruin everything for everybody. My Sister-In-Law in on a local school boards that has open each public meeting with a prayer for over 30 years, at the last meeting someone stood up an objected that it was an offense to them and that they were going to sue the school board. The school board's lawyers said the objected had legal grounds and the board would lose and have to pay.
Injun Joe: The diving bell WAS handicapped accessible. No stairs, wide walkways and hallways, loading dock. The doors to the diving bells were wide, and we could fit a wheelchair through easy. The exit passage on the other side of the diving bells was a bit narrow, so when the ride was over and everyone else was out safely, we simply opened the opposite door that the visitors came in, backed out the wheelchair, and took the folks back out the entrance. (Although by doing so, it blew the illusion that the capsule had gone underwater, because the loading dock and the exit tunnel were on opposite sides!)
This time last year we were all speculating that Huck Finns Hideout would be torn down during the off-season....well it wasn't. Sadly, even though it has been closed for some years now, at least we are still able to enjoy the atmosphere of the outside of it. God-willing, it will last through another off-season.
That being said, just remember that this is all 'speculation' of what could happen. I would hate to see Grandfather's Mansion closed, for any reason. Sure, it's not as fun as it use to be when we were all kids (with all its working affects), but it is one of the few lasting classic attractions we have.
SDC, Please try your hardest to KEEP this beloved attraction open for as long as possible.
Quote from: DollarCityBoy on December 02, 2011, 10:55:44 AM
This time last year we were all speculating that Huck Finns Hideout would be torn down during the off-season....well it wasn't.
The only reason it hasn't been torn down is because they have no real reason to yet. If they ever finally get something else to put there it will be down in a heartbeat. Until then it's nothing but a lawn ornament like GM could become someday.
You're right that it's all speculation though, but this is sadly one of the areas where we can speculate pretty accurately. Despite all of our complaining, someday soon the benefits of keeping GM will fall short of the effort it takes to maintain it with the new laws, modern guests, lawsuits, ect. That's why I think the best thing we can do is encourage the park to do a serious remodeling of the attraction to bring it up to code rather than trying to keep it on life support.
Quote from: shavethewhales on December 02, 2011, 12:39:30 PM
That's why I think the best thing we can do is encourage the park to do a serious remodeling of the attraction to bring it up to code rather than trying to keep it on life support.
I couldn't agree more. I'm psyched for an all new, bigger and better, even cooler "funhouse", with viewing areas for the disabled guests to enjoy the "gravity room" features.
I'd still be quite sad to lose our current GM though. It's rather historic at this point and becomes better with age. It's past the stage where it's just getting old and outdated and nearly reached the stage where it's more like, "Wow, this is really old and cool for that reason." Keep the paintings clean and what we have is a museum piece. I know the bottom line is the bottom line, laws are laws, and judgement calls have to be made, but if this were to go, what's next? It's a Small World?
Junior: The more my memory is jogged about the Bell the more I regret its fate.
Injun Joe: With today's special effects, bringing back the diving bell would be fantastic. It would be nice to see, but don't really know if SDC would revisit the past like that. I think if they did they could put the attraction in the spot the waterboggin occupied next to the kids attraction on the lake, but, likely something else will eventually go there. Time marches on.
Granted I can only speak for the st louis area since that is where I work for code enforcement. Grandfathers mansion does not fall under some of the same rules as a grocery store, departmet store or apartments. Since it is considered an amusment the need for ADA requirements is completely up to SDC. I do inspections on carnivals and picnics and there are no ADA requirements for them. The key is that it has to have the proper safety precautions in case of fire or power failure. Becuase you do not have to go into the atttraction. That may hurt one feelings but it is impossible to requir it. Like it was talked about before there are rides that can only handle certain size people and those are some of the new west rides and so some have to be turned away.
Also many times if you do a remodel you only have to have the part that is remodeled ADA compliant by no means do you have to bring up the entire building to that standard. The only exception to that is if the percentage of the remodel hit a certain amount.
Either way unless Branson does it differently the st louis GM would not be affected.
QuoteEither way unless Branson does it differently the st louis GM would not be affected.
The Mansion is safe.
Instead of looking at what you cant do, look at what you can do.
Please do not give advice to the handicapped. Unless you have walked in their shoes, it's best not to make such broad statements. Their struggles are far greater than you can imagine.
There is so much open to those who are in predicaments beyond control. SDC has done great finding a way to open so many of their rides to everyone. Lets say your in a wheel chair and want to ride FITH. Find an attendent let them know whats up enter thru the exit with a friend to help you get on ride. It is that easy.
I beg to differ with you. It's not that easy. Don't assume that it is. There are obstacles that you are unaware of. SDC does an "okay" job outfitting their park for the disabled, but they have a long way to go in my opinion. They need to start by educating their employees, and then move on to physical changes. I have been called a "wheelchair" on numerous occasions within the park, and to me than is UNACCEPTABLE. I will say with 100% certainty that the last time I looked in the mirror I was a person, not a wheelchair.
Please do not shut down GM. There is no reason for it.
On this point, I must agree! LEAVE GRANDFATHER'S MANSION ALONE! It holds historical significance. And, I have stated before - if you can't enter it, you can't enter it. Find something else to do. There are many other choices.
ADA guidelines do need to be revamped! I know that it will cause hardship to some businesses, schools, etc, and it would certainly be nice if the government would kick in and help them a bit. I teach in a school that is not accessible. Without the use of a power chair, I would have to leave my position. Very few accommodations have been made to help me get around. The few that I have had to request when my power chair was delivered were rejected due to cost. The costs to the district to honor my requests would have been less than $2,000. Because of the clause within the ADA Guidelines - reasonable accommodations - I can't force the district to make physical changes.
I don't intend to continue on and bore you with details, but I would like to reiterate my point: SDC can easily make changes to better accommodate their guests. My suggestions for improvement are simple: 1) Educate their employees 2) Send out surveys and ask their disabled guests what would improve their day in the park 3) Hire me as a consultant! :)
LEAVE GRANDFATHER'S MANSION ALONE!
Gilligan,
I hope you're not offended because I don't think that was anybody's intention.
I see your point. I've never had to be in a wheelchair, but I agree 100% with what you said, how nobody should give advice to the handicapped unless they know exactly what it's like. I noticed, several times over the weekend, at the Opera House where some of the ushers weren't extremely warm to people in wheelchairs. They seemed rushed, even though there was still a good 20 minutes til the show started. I'm sure the ushers were stressed. I probably would be too, dealing with huge crowds of people all day, but a huge part of the theme park business is "Service With a Smile!" It was strange how the ushers seemed more stressed at the first show than they did at the last show (the only 2 times I saw on Christmas Carol on Friday). I understand how "stressed" feels. It's easier just to grin and bear it, makes the day go by a lot faster.
Tiffany,
Thank you very much for your concern - I am in no way offended! Trams gave me an avenue to speak my mind, and I did it! And, I'm glad she did! I know the PTB read these forums, and sometimes that's the best way to get a message across. My response did sound a little defensive, but it was late at night, and I jumped on the bandwagon. I should have re-read it before I posted.
You are right about the Opera House, though. The friendliest people do not work there. I posted somewhere else on here about getting stuck in there while my husband got locked out trying to find my wheelchair after an employee moved it. I'm sure crowd control is tough to handle, but they should have lots of experience by now - it's the end of the season. Trams and I decided that we're going to be co-presidents and turn that place around for them! :) (Hope we get a big salary!) LOL
I hope you enjoyed your trip! Other than fly fishing, there's no place I'd rather be in Missouri during any season!!
gilligan, let me throw this in also..
I have a good friend of mine that is "handicapped"!!!! YEA RIGHT!! Dont tell him that. :o :o
He has been in a wheelchair for almost 20 years now, he is only 40 years old or so now,, AND there is NOTHING he cant do. (or seems that way).. (I dont know the terms, but he is paralyzed from the waist down)
when we are out with him, people look at us funny.,
we dont hold doors open, because he can open them.
we go upstairs, he goes around them,
go to a restauraunt, he moves chairs out of the way and wheels right in..
He wheels up to his pickup, he pulls himself inside the truck, folds up his chair, it goes int he backseat and her is on is way,!
He also plays baseball, basketball, rides quads and buggies with us,
And I wont even get into the word games we paly with each other, while doing the things we do,,, LOL
i have learned from him that "handicap" is more of a frame of mind, rather than physical. If dont want to be considered handicap, dont act like you are,\
He is an amazing individual.