SDCFans - The Unofficial Fan Site For Silver Dollar City
General Category => Branson Talk => Topic started by: sanddunerider on October 24, 2015, 07:30:21 AM
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130,000,000?! WOW, Lots of Zeros! This is proposed for Branson to run from the Landing to SDC, with stops in between.
http://www.hometowndailynews.com/2015/10/23/new-transportation-system-could-be-coming-to-branson/
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I have a hard time with 3000 people per hour. It seems this would be a slow process to stop this many times and effectively get 12000 people from Branson to SDC between 8 AM and noon. Branson is not walker friendly and this needs to be fixed before they string up lines throughout the area for this. I am all for progress but I think that this might be a misstep, a gondola system does not seem to have the PPH needed to be a serius transportation option. In WDW they built monorails and with expansion found that buses were necessary to truly move the masses, Branson is set up much the same way with hotels being spread out. Not that I am a bus advocate but this seems like it will be the same outcome. If I stay at the Classic I am going to drive to Tanger, pay to park, and pay to get on this gondola to get to SDC? Maybe once..............Think about closing time at SDC, this would be an overload that I don't think would be reasonable for a gondola to keep up with. Think about how many fit on the trams and the lines there get pretty long at close.
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It's likely that the whole system would not stop for loading/unloading. They're obviously going to have to weigh the costs against revenues on this one. Sometimes the dreamers get press ahead of the process.
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Having rode many gondola type systems in Switzerland and Austria they are designed to be boarded without stopping. I think this would be a great addition to the area to relieve the congestion of morning and closing traffic for SDC especially. Sounds like this is a private proposal being built with private funds. Hopefully the numbers will work out and we will have this as a option. If Branson would have had the foresight years ago instead of investing in roads to nowhere it would not be in the shape it is. It might be enough to make me more of a 1 time a year visitor again. We usually stay in Thousand hills condos or French Quarter so it would probably be a short walk to any station.
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Runner being that you have used this type system do you feel it will overload in the peak hours? Can it keep up?
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^^^I do not think so. It would depend on the size of the gondolas. Take for example after the parade during Christmas season on a 70 degree Saturday. Probably one of the busiest times you could imagine. I would much rather wait 20-30 minutes getting on this than to wait 30 minutes for a school bus to take me to Notch then wait in traffic all the way into town.
The ones I have used never stop and that includes loading Bicycles in racks on the gondolas.
I would think a big factor will be Wither SDC would allow a on site station for a private run transportation system or not. If you would have to take a tram or bus to a staging area it would take away some of the benefit. Hopefully if this would come to being a reality a agreement could be worked out.
(http://IMG_0386.jpg)
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^^^I do not think so. It would depend on the size of the gondolas. Take for example after the parade during Christmas season on a 70 degree Saturday. Probably one of the busiest times you could imagine. I would much rather wait 20-30 minutes getting on this than to wait 30 minutes for a school bus to take me to Notch then wait in traffic all the way into town.
The ones I have used never stop and that includes loading Bicycles in racks on the gondolas.
I would think a big factor will be Wither SDC would allow a on site station for a private run transportation system or not. If you would have to take a tram or bus to a staging area it would take away some of the benefit. Hopefully if this would come to being a reality a agreement could be worked out.
(http://IMG_0386.jpg)
Trying to post a image, but it is impossible to get it small enough to post. Is there a way to increase the image size allowed?
IMG_0386.jpg
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I don't believe this will ever be built. Provide sidewalks a better dollar investment.
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The system actually sounds cheap if it would be able to do all that it says it does.
I'm all for alternative transportation solutions. Park and ride will catch on eventually, but this part of the country is probably going to be the last to "get it". I would totally ride to SDC from my hotel if I had the opportunity. Plus it would open up a lot of possibilities on those nights where I really don't feel like fighting traffic after a day at SDC.
However, the system in question seems a little suspect. With all those stops, the station management probably gets a little tricky since you have no idea who's getting off. The bulk of the riders are probably going to be traveling to either end, especially during peak hours, which would make it hectic to get on at some of the stops down the line. If it's a constantly moving system like most of them are, then that just makes it more difficult with all of our disabled and elderly.
I've been looking for examples of tramways that are actually used for transportation outside of ski resorts and amusement parks, and it's tough to find any. There used to be one in New Orleans, but it closed 20 years ago due to low ridership: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_Aerial_River_Transit
I also can't find anything on this specific company, except for a few linkedIn accounts...
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Honestly, Branson needs something more like a monorail or like the always-moving Tomorrowland Transit Authority. The gondolas are gonna have a problem when it comes to weather. Something tracked like monorail/TTA would get around the wind/etc problem.
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http://www.ozarksfirst.com/news/public-to-hear-plans-for-branson-gondola-project
So this idea isn't dead yet.
I for one would definitely use this, seeing as SDC and Branson Landing are the two things I always do in Branson. I'm not sure a whopping 10% of Branson visitors would though... they kind of skim over how big a number that actually is.
It's still just a massive expense though, and while it would help the town transform, transportation is only one piece of the puzzle.
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Sounds intriguing, but people still have to park somewhere. Where do they park? At each of the 10-12 stops?
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I'm highly skeptical that the cost to return ratio is going to make this thing financially viable. And that's going to be a major roadblock to this, or any other system.
It says in the article, "Green says it would be privately funded and would require a small percentage, roughly 10-percent, of Branson eight-million yearly visitors to be financially viable." In other words, for this thing to pay for itself it's going to need 800,000 riders a year, or more, to be viable. I wonder what the cost per rider is that they are thinking for that. And do they think they'll actually get that many riders? I don't know.
I know Vegas monorail was built on a lot of the same kind of build up, need, and promises of how it would pay for itself. And with costs to build it being 3-4 times this cost, and a ridership that has varied from 4-7 million each year (Or 5-8 times the ridership this says it needs) it went bankrupt in 2010. Not a good omen for something with similar goals, and something that will be looked at.
Honestly, I don't see something like this happening, and especially not being vialble and able to keep operating, without government funding or taxes specifically for it. I don't think it will get the ridership (seniors are not going to leave their cars in mass), nor do I think it's going to draw that many people to ride it to SDC. (for evidence, look at the bus routes that used to run to SDC, all of which are now defunct)
Not to be a debbie downer, but I just don't see this as a workable project, in any form, without massive government help on the financial end. And I don't think it's the type of project that is worth the massive $$ investment into it, or the small return it would get out of it. Neat idea? Nice if it was there? Absolutely. Worth it? I don't think so.
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I'm highly skeptical that the cost to return ratio is going to make this thing financially viable. And that's going to be a major roadblock to this, or any other system.
Didn't stop KC from putting in the very unpopular streetcar system (and now they want to expand it). That project went over budget in time and money.
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I'm highly skeptical that the cost to return ratio is going to make this thing financially viable. And that's going to be a major roadblock to this, or any other system.
Didn't stop KC from putting in the very unpopular streetcar system (and now they want to expand it). That project went over budget in time and money.
And was government funded by a large city. Branson is not a large city, doesn't have the funds, and hasn't shown a willingness to fund something like this on their own. or even to be a major contributor to it.
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The Vegas Monorail is useful though, I rode it everyday when I was there a year ago. Could have been better, but for the area it serves it is great and the thing was packed a lot of the time. This is the main thing that keeps popping in my head whenever I consider this project.
The street cars that Kansas City and now Oklahoma City are putting in are more complex in their purpose and usage, since they involve making those areas more livable and attractive to particular groups that the cities want to attract.
This gondola concept or something like it could be both useful AND promote a certain "livability" and appeal to a new set of Branson visitors... if it's done well. It's more likely it would end up as a huge boondoggle, but something about this really makes me want to play devils advocate.
I'd like them to start out with something more low-risk, like the faux trolley system that has been proposed already. I know there are concerns there that the trolleys will just get stuck in traffic and won't be as marketable as something huge like a giant gondola ride, but it would sure make a better proof of concept if they could get Branson people to actual use mass transit for once.
Branson may not be a big city per se, but at 8 million visitors a year it's a pretty huge deal. They should already have something like this. At least a bus system.
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The Vegas Monorail is useful though, I rode it everyday when I was there a year ago. Could have been better, but for the area it serves it is great and the thing was packed a lot of the time. This is the main thing that keeps popping in my head whenever I consider this project.
Right. But consider that if it's packed and it still went bankrupt and couldn't cover it's costs of operation...
Then how is something that isn't going to have anywhere near as many crowds on it, and over a longer length, as whatever version Branson will end up with going to cover its costs and make any money, let alone pay for itself.
Las Vegas decided that it was worth the tax dollars investment to do something like that. Branson not only hasn't, and is very hesitant to do to, but it doesn't have the money or tax base to be able to make the kind of high cost investment that something like this needs. And if a private company actually does it, they're going to end up like the Vegas monorail.
It's either got to be a taxpayer funded project (and I don't think the local taxpayers think it's worth it), or it's not going to be a viable project.
Would it be great? Yes! Would we like it? Yes! Would it reduce traffic? Maybe. Would it cost a ton of money? Absolutely. Would it make that money back? doubtful. Would the tax payers be on the hook for it when they didn't want to, or otherwise have it sitting there rotting away a few years later? far to likely in my book.
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I really would like to see something like this happen. My entire problem with Branson as a destination is all the random driving you need to do and all the mixed up and confusing parking lots. Unrestricted Unregulated growth in the 90's worsened the problem.Then the city just built a lot of underused roads to try and alleviate the problem. 76 will always be the main thoroughfare. I would use it especially if it went to SDC. Have not been to Branson this year and probably not next year either. Hopefully the entertainment options will give me a reason to return soon after 17.
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The Vegas Monorail is useful though, I rode it everyday when I was there a year ago. Could have been better, but for the area it serves it is great and the thing was packed a lot of the time. This is the main thing that keeps popping in my head whenever I consider this project.
Right. But consider that if it's packed and it still went bankrupt and couldn't cover it's costs of operation...
Then how is something that isn't going to have anywhere near as many crowds on it, and over a longer length, as whatever version Branson will end up with going to cover its costs and make any money, let alone pay for itself.
Las Vegas decided that it was worth the tax dollars investment to do something like that. Branson not only hasn't, and is very hesitant to do to, but it doesn't have the money or tax base to be able to make the kind of high cost investment that something like this needs. And if a private company actually does it, they're going to end up like the Vegas monorail.
It's either got to be a taxpayer funded project (and I don't think the local taxpayers think it's worth it), or it's not going to be a viable project.
Would it be great? Yes! Would we like it? Yes! Would it reduce traffic? Maybe. Would it cost a ton of money? Absolutely. Would it make that money back? doubtful. Would the tax payers be on the hook for it when they didn't want to, or otherwise have it sitting there rotting away a few years later? far to likely in my book.
Can we stop the talking in absolutes? It's lazy and ridiculous. If you have published facts to back up these absolutes you keep spouting off then please supply them, otherwise you've stated your view on the topic - realize that most don't agree with it on here, AND take notice how they have been respective of your opinion. It would suit you to follow their example.
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Swoosh- I have not been disrespectful in any way. As I've said, I think it would be a neat idea. Personally, I'd love to see something like this happen. It's just not practical. Sorry if you don't like my opinion, but as someone who usually talks in absolutes yourself, you should be familiar with it. :)
And sorry if the facts that I posted about the Las Vegas monorail aren't to your liking. Or the facts about Branson saying that it won't invest massive tax dollars. Or the facts that it doesn't have those tax dollars. Or the fact that every other form of public transportation that used to run to the park no longer does. Or the facts about how Branson has been resistant to other forms of transportation running the strip. Facts are absolutes, like it or not.
It's a fact that something like this is going to cost a huge amount of money. Huge. And that's a big damper on dreams and pie in the sky.
Now if you've got some facts to refute mine, please do so. But mine are out there, easy to find, and well known. I haven't seen you post any other than a couple of proposals.
Personally, I would absolutely love it if something like this were to happen. I just don't think it's possible. And the facts seem to bear that out.
So if you consider facts lazy and ridiculous compared to throwing out dreams and proposals, many of which will never actually even get put into writing let alone actually put before the city, ok. I respect your desire to dream. But apply those standards that you are trying to inaccurately push on me to yourself as well. :) And sometimes when reality and facts confront dreams, well yeah, it stinks. But that's life sometimes.
In any case, I'm done stating my opinion. You can go back to running the thread Swoosh. :)
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http://www.ky3.com/content/news/Company-planning-Branson-gondola-system-answers-community-concerns-400322781.html
check this news reel out.. 160-200 million dollars, all privately funded...
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^ I was just going to post the same link up. :) It's step one, and they do address a couple of my concerns (the funds raised and if it fails will it be left standing) It's still early and it's informal, nothing official yet, but have to say good for them for bringing those up.
There's also a short article at: http://www.ktts.com/news/a-new-gandola-system-announced-in-branson
That mentions this tidbit: "Tickets are expected to cost $15 per person for a daily pass, with discounts for multi-day passes."
Wowch, that can be a lot just for a one day trip to Branson. With my family of 4, I'd rather drive the slow strip at that price.
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"Tickets are expected to cost $15 per person for a daily pass, with discounts for multi-day passes."
Wowch, that can be a lot just for a one day trip to Branson. With my family of 4, I'd rather drive the slow strip at that price.
THat may be true Willow, I probaly will ride it full length 1 time, just because, But on the other hand, SAAYYY for the guy in town for a couple of days, wife, couple of teenage kids,.. maybe she or they want to go to the landing, or Tanger, or SDC, or an afternoon show, OR maybe they are in town for baseball at the Red Roof.. This might be the perfect transport option for them. At 15.00 per day, free reign all over 76? cheap! .. LOL>. AND I dont have to drive them back and forth..!
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http://www.hometowndailynews.com/2016/11/08/citizens-provide-input-on-possible-branson-gondola-project/
The link above is from one of the Branson radio stations that covered the public meeting on the project.
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I don't think Branson needs one of these. I wouldn't use it. It wouldn't be bad, just too costly for what you get, doesn't seem like it's worth it.
Just my opinion.
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http://www.news-leader.com/story/news/local/ozarks/2016/11/26/branson-gondola-agreement-go-before-city-leaders-next-month/94212630/
So they're pretty serious about keeping this project rolling. I have seen enough projects like this one to know that it will almost certainly fall apart, but it's fun to see something with actual backing to it. The fact that they've been able to push all these meetings and seemingly get the city to work with them, and even bring out a sample car to show off, shows that they at least know what they are doing. I kind of doubt they will get backers... but maybe some Chinese investors are still wanting to throw some money at random American projects?
It will be interesting to see if they release any more details following the supposed Dec. 13 agreement. I'm assuming the city will go ahead and give them the memorandum since it's not exactly going to cost them anything and could turn into something amazing.
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I still like the idea of this project, especially with minimal cost to Branson.. If investors want to come on and build it
and think it will work.. More power to them.
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A couple of interesting tidbits in that article:
The system would run from 6 a.m. to 1 a.m. for 50 weeks a year, with two weeks of scheduled maintenance.
A 24-hour pass would cost $15, Green said, and a weeklong pass somewhere between $28 and $30. The company envisions offering an annual pass for Branson residents who want to use it to commute to work.
50 weeks a year? I'm surprised they would run it in January and February when the area is a ghost town. Though I guess it could help cover some of the transportation for people working in the area when the roads are a mess.
And I love the idea of them offering an annual pass for locals and commuters. If they can make that affordable- especially if they have some sort of a monthly payment plan for commuters- then they may be on to something. But I'm wondering on that "affordable" part when they are hoping to get $28- $30 for a weeklong pass. Their week prices are what a lot of commuters pay for a month on various systems, and with many of these area jobs being low paying just above minimum wage types of jobs, if they go much more than that it's not going to be affordable or cost effective for those that might need or want to use it the most. We'll have to see.
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If they can make that affordable- especially if they have some sort of a monthly payment plan for commuters- then they may be on to something. But I'm wondering on that "affordable" part when they are hoping to get $28- $30 for a weeklong pass.
IF this were to come to pass they would probably have to have a greatly discounted pass for locals. The ridership would vary so greatly seasonally and hourly they would really have to depend on locals to keep the gondolas reasonably full. Numbers in Branson are really all over the place time of year considered. I also wonder about parking. Do they have a main station planned where most of the parking would be supplied?
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If it will run from historic section of Branson to SDC, how long do you think it would take to get there? I can't imagine it would be a quick ride.
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Some more damning details coming out of the woodwork now, especially the fact that they have NOT gotten any sort of agreement with SDC, and they haven't even done a feasibility study, which I assumed was step 1.
Looks like they are "postponing" the agreement, which likely signals it's death unless they completely rework things.
http://bransontrilakesnews.com/news_free/article_13b7f3a4-be46-11e6-baec-a32ba2383fd7.html
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So, last noght on FB, I saw the front page of this weeks "The Independent", small local Branson publication.. I am sure most of us has seen it, usually at motels......
anyway last night, front page, indicates project was approved and they are supposed to be going by 2020?
anybody in branson see that article? or can verify that...?
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http://bransontrilakesnews.com/news_free/article_bfdbe24a-c3cc-11e6-867a-bfd533b8764c.html
So they approved it with changes: no required use of eminent domain, no connection to SDC, and will work with a few other entities/initiatives.
This allows them to move forward on spending some money towards actually coming up with a plan/design. In November of 2017 they will present an actual contract to build the thing, at which point we will know if this thing will become reality or not.
Dropping the SDC connection is significant. It could still happen, but it sounds like SDC wants to make sure this thing is viable before they bulldoze their way up to SDC's property. Perhaps they will add on the segment to SDC after the main portion proves its viability. I don't know if not connecting to SDC initially will make the project more or less viable for them... on one hand it makes the system smaller and easier to manage, but on the other hand SDC is the main destination in Branson...
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I have sometimes wondered if a table rock lake ferry connection could be made to the lake at SDC...
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So the November 2017 deadline came and went and there hasn't been a peep about this project. I'm guessing that means it is officially dead. Probably couldn't get investors on board. I had a glimmer of hope that something would happen though... they had a gondola car to show off and everything.
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Maybe they’re waiting for WDW to open theirs and show successful theses things can be
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Maybe they’re waiting for WDW to open theirs and show successful theses things can be
Yep, this us very similar to what Disney is doing IMO, but I never thought this would get built.
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Yeah, I dont see a system like this going in the Branson area. It would have to span out to SDC, and that would take a Lot of 0's to build...
Now maybe after a recently new proposed waterpark was build......
AND IF maybe another group did a large project out on "south 465"
It wouldn't hurt if something was done at CC also..
That's a lot of waiting and "if's"
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Looks like it’s moving forward.
http://www.ky3.com/content/news/Plans-for-260-million-gondola-project-move-forward-in-Branson--485966931.html
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I saw that "new" proposal/idea.
They have shortened the proposed travel route..
Gondolas now will only go to 76/SOTH expressway on the west side. NOT out to SDC.
That alone would lower overall cost ALOT..
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I saw that "new" proposal/idea.
They have shortened the proposed travel route..
Gondolas now will only go to 76/SOTH expressway on the west side. NOT out to SDC.
That alone would lower overall cost ALOT..
I'm pretty sure they would make it all the way to SDC if "someone" helped foot the bill.
Plus, that could be an awfully long ride, especially if these things aren't air conditioned and heated.
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I saw that "new" proposal/idea.
They have shortened the proposed travel route..
Gondolas now will only go to 76/SOTH expressway on the west side. NOT out to SDC.
That alone would lower overall cost ALOT..
I'm pretty sure they would make it all the way to SDC if "someone" helped foot the bill.
Plus, that could be an awfully long ride, especially if these things aren't air conditioned and heated.
You have to wonder if Herschend would give them a place to unload. It might be a matter of cutting into the preferred parking fees they collect ? I am sure SDC would want a cut of the rider fees or something to compensate.
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I'm pretty sure they would make it all the way to SDC if "someone" helped foot the bill.
Plus, that could be an awfully long ride, especially if these things aren't air conditioned and heated.
SDC and SOTH, , BUT that take a lot of "help"... ::)
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They need to focus on connecting a few key points in Branson right now instead of the original pie-in-the-sky concept of having this thing run around everywhere and out to SDC. It sounds like they are chugging along and coming to that realization.
It also needs a base parking area/garage to start at. I'd love to just park on the North end of the strip and be able to ride to Downtown Branson. They can combine it with the trolley, so that the end points are also multi-modal hubs that could take you to SDC or the landing.
Still a very interesting proposition, but I'm not holding my breath. With the next recession looming, I have a feeling this is going to be another Branson mega project that will make a lot of noise but never actually happen.