SDCFans - The Unofficial Fan Site For Silver Dollar City

Silver Dollar City & Celebration City Discussion => Construction/Rumors => Topic started by: t-n-t on July 19, 2015, 08:32:16 PM

Title: Land size ..
Post by: t-n-t on July 19, 2015, 08:32:16 PM
Just how much land is available for SDC to expand and put in more attractions, mostly a new rollercoaster?
Title: Re: Land size ..
Post by: Tmboote on July 19, 2015, 08:46:16 PM
We've discussed this before on this site, and if I remember correctly, I think someone said that the park currently sits on only a quarter of the total land that they own. So, there is plenty of room. The park was smart early and made sure that land space would never be a problem.
Title: Re: Land size ..
Post by: shavethewhales on July 19, 2015, 10:41:48 PM
SDC has more than enough land at it's immediate disposal to do what they want for the foreseeable future. They might continue the loop around the lake someday, but they aren't going to expand the park indefinitely like some sort of roller coaster tycoon park. As far as coasters go, there's plenty of room to run them back into the land that SDC owns around the perimeters of the park. There are some issues with caves, especially on the southeast corner, but I don't think they'll ever have too much trouble fitting in new stuff.
Title: Re: Land size ..
Post by: runner1960 on July 20, 2015, 10:49:43 AM
We've discussed this before on this site, and if I remember correctly, I think someone said that the park currently sits on only a quarter of the total land that they own. So, there is plenty of room. The park was smart early and made sure that land space would never be a problem.

Correct me if I am wrong but I do not think they own the land. It is still on the 99 year lease from the Lynch sisters. Someone who knows correct me if this is not true.
Title: Re: Land size ..
Post by: Sheriff on July 20, 2015, 11:57:06 AM
Correct me if I am wrong but I do not think they own the land. It is still on the 99 year lease from the Lynch sisters. Someone who knows correct me if this is not true.

And I may be wrong too but I was thinking the original land that includes the cave that was once part of the Lynch family has since been deeded over to College of the Ozarks and then Silver Dollar City and/or HFE owns several hundred acres around that original parcel of land. This would mean the park actually sits on land that it doesn't own even though HFE owns several hundred contiguous acres right there.

Again, I may be completely off base.
Title: Re: Land size ..
Post by: runner1960 on July 20, 2015, 12:28:16 PM
If I recall correctly the original lease was for the cave  and 1 square mile surrounding it.
Title: Re: Land size ..
Post by: Coaster on July 20, 2015, 12:35:47 PM
Maybe this has been addressed somewhere else and I'm just not remembering, but what happens at the end of that 99 year lease?
Title: Re: Land size ..
Post by: runner1960 on July 20, 2015, 01:48:45 PM
Maybe this has been addressed somewhere else and I'm just not remembering, but what happens at the end of that 99 year lease?

Not sure but I bet the lease will not be as attractive as what they have now if they even get it back. Here is the Wikipedia link to SDC. It talks about the lease. Apparently the land is now owned by SOTO and The Branson Presbyterian Church.
Title: Re: Land size ..
Post by: shavethewhales on July 20, 2015, 02:45:01 PM
Years ago someone posted a link to the local planning commission site that showed what land HFEC currently owned vs. what is still owned by the church. I haven't had enough time to find it though, but I'll try to look again tonight. I think the leased area is actually pretty small from what I remember.

It's bound to be an extremely complicated situation. I'm sure there are all kinds of protections for both sides, otherwise SDC wouldn't be investing continuously into the place.
Title: Re: Land size ..
Post by: runner1960 on July 20, 2015, 02:49:56 PM
Maybe this has been addressed somewhere else and I'm just not remembering, but what happens at the end of that 99 year lease?

Not sure but I bet the lease will not be as attractive as what they have now if they even get it back. Here is the Wikipedia link to SDC. It talks about the lease. Apparently the land is now owned by SOTO and The Branson Presbyterian Church.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Dollar_City

Forgot the link
Title: Re: Land size ..
Post by: Sheriff on July 20, 2015, 03:16:10 PM
I was like Shave and thought they College/Church didn't own very much but, according to the Stone County GIS, they own a lot more than I thought (all of the current park, parking lots and across the road back to the Wilderness). However, Silver Dollar City Inc and HFEC each own several tracts of land around that area.
Title: Re: Land size ..
Post by: runner1960 on July 20, 2015, 03:41:04 PM
I was like Shave and thought they College/Church didn't own very much but, according to the Stone County GIS, they own a lot more than I thought (all of the current park, parking lots and across the road back to the Wilderness). However, Silver Dollar City Inc and HFEC each own several tracts of land around that area.

Like I said earlier I am almost certain the Lease was for 1 square mile surrounding the cave.
Years ago someone posted a link to the local planning commission site that showed what land HFEC currently owned vs. what is still owned by the church. I haven't had enough time to find it though, but I'll try to look again tonight. I think the leased area is actually pretty small from what I remember.

It's bound to be an extremely complicated situation. I'm sure there are all kinds of protections for both sides, otherwise SDC wouldn't be investing continuously into the place.

If this was negotiated in the 1950's with the intention of only operating the cave who knows if the lease has been modified or if HFEC is just getting one heck of a deal. They are well over half way into the lease right now.
Might be part of the reason for so much investment in Dollywood vs SDC.
Title: Re: Land size ..
Post by: cowboy on July 20, 2015, 04:30:13 PM
go to Stone County GIS site:
https://stone.integritygis.com/

You might need to download some software to make it work, but on this site, you can see who owns what in Stone County.

Most of the land Silver Dollar City (and most of Section 29) is shown to be owned by School of the Ozarks and Presbyterian Church. https://hyperlink.integritygis.com/stone/prc/12-9.0-29-000-000-001.000.pdf

There is land owned by Silver Dollar City, LLC https://hyperlink.integritygis.com/stone/prc/12-9.0-30-000-000-001.000.pdf

And some owned by Silver Dollar City, INC. https://hyperlink.integritygis.com/stone/prc/12-9.0-29-000-000-001.003.pdf

Anyhow, go to that first link.....go to the navigation tab, zoom into the area you want to view, highlight the Rectangle Identity tool and then start clicking around the map. This will tell you owner, etc.

Jay
Title: Re: Land size ..
Post by: Sheriff on July 20, 2015, 05:02:40 PM
Like I said earlier I am almost certain the Lease was for 1 square mile surrounding the cave.

Yeah you were close, for sure! A lot more than I was thinking. It is showing 582 acres owned by the School/Church. 640 acres is a square mile. And the majority of the missing 58 acres? The Wilderness which is owned by Silver Dollar City Inc. I noticed the address of the School/Church is listed as the same Dallas, TX address as all the Silver Dollar City properties in Stone County. Let me throw another one out there, was  the initial 99 year lease for $1?
Title: Re: Land size ..
Post by: shavethewhales on July 20, 2015, 07:36:09 PM
Wow, I had forgotten how much the church still owned. So basically they control everything the park actually uses and will use for the foreseeable future. I had thought they had split that up to some degree.

It's interesting how much of the roadway land they still own. I wonder what would happen if they started selling it... probably wouldn't be too pretty.
Title: Re: Land size ..
Post by: HumphreyHawk on July 21, 2015, 08:35:59 AM
Wow....That is interesting information....

Wonder if the church/college has any influence over the park then?  Do they get a say in ride development, shows, etc?  Maybe they have a handshake agreement for a cut in revenues?  A cheap lease on the land would be a huge cost benefit for the company (and helps keep our ticket prices down).

I wonder if HFE has ever tried to buy it from them or do a land swap....It's hard to imagine that the church/college would ever cause the park to close (huge impact to Branson) over a land issue but it should be concerning as it is a big financial risk to the long-term stability of the park. 
Title: Re: Land size ..
Post by: MoOzark on July 21, 2015, 11:14:00 AM
I have done a little research on the land records of Section 29. Here are some highlights of the early history:

-- In 1870, the Atlantic and Pacific (A&P) Railroad announced plans to construct a new railroad across the White River region, from Monett, Missouri, to Batesville, Arkansas.

-- The A&P Railroad was given a land grant by the US Government of 140,000 acres. The grant consisted of alternating sections of land on either side of the proposed route.

-- George Gilbert of Springfield, Missouri, purchased all of section 29, the square mile that included Marble Cave. He purchased the land solely as an investment.

-- In 1884, Mr. T. Hodge Jones purchased all of sec. 29. The land was transferred to the corporation, The Marble Cave Mining and Manufacturing Company.

-- In 1884, J. B..Emery, president of the Marble Cave Mining Co., filed a plat for the town of Marble City with Stone County.

-- In 1893, Arthur Lynch of Jackson County, Missouri, bought the one-square-mile cave property (sec. 29) for $7,000.

-- In 1893, Arthur sold sec. 29 to his brother, William Henry Lynch who was living in Canada. The price was $10,000.

-- In 1901, a small plot (2 to 4 acres) was donated by Levi Morrill for the Marble Cave School, but this was probably in sec. 20.

-- Year Unknown:  80 acres (E ½, NE ¼ of Sec. 29) transferred to Lizzie Goodan.

-- (about 1913 ?) William Henry Lynch died and his land in sec. 29 was transferred to his daughters. (I believe this was 560 acres).

Please let me know if any of this is in error or it I left out anything.

Title: Re: Land size ..
Post by: Coaster on July 21, 2015, 11:32:27 AM
^Interesting. I really wish we knew more about this lease and what it means for the future of SDC. Things could get sticky but I hope not.
Title: Re: Land size ..
Post by: Junior, too! on July 21, 2015, 03:48:25 PM
The Herschends and CofO and the downtown Branson church have maintained friendly relationships from day one, as far as I know. I think some of the Herschends attend that church. Over the years, that friendly relationship has benefitted all three entities, I would not expect that to change.