SDCFans - The Unofficial Fan Site For Silver Dollar City
Silver Dollar City & Celebration City Discussion => General Silver Dollar City Talk => Topic started by: biscuitcreek on January 03, 2015, 08:37:38 AM
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The link below is to an article in the current edition of Branson Tri-Lakes News. It has highlights of 2014 tourism in Branson. There are several paragraphs about SDC with quotes from Brad Thomas and Lisa Lau. The park did hit its 1.9 million visitor goal and did have a record attendance day of 24,000.
http://bransontrilakesnews.com/news_free/article_72b450d0-92bc-11e4-9efc-5f39b498c962.html
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As you read this article it is really depressing how many taxes are levied on the tourist. I know all tourist areas are bad about this , but Branson seems over the top . Glad my visits have decreased over the years to 1 or 2 at the most.
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I read that article, that is great news for SDC.!
They did have several poor weather weeks and weekend.. I am glad for the company they were able to get the numbers they wanted.
As far as the taxes are concerned, we pay taxes everywhere we go, Branson is a little higher on their day to day taxes....
I just look at it as being an expense I have to pay to enjoy myself....
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So I want to ask the question because I am curious.
Is 1.9 Million a good number? I believe I remember they were topping 2 million back in the late 80's. Maybe my rememberer is broke.
It really does not seem like a lot when you consider the St. Louis cardinals do 3.5 Million on only 81 dates. And I think the Royals did close to 1.9 this year.
Also, Is this a paid attendance or a total? BAF's , comps and employee give away tickets might be included.
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So, SDC was open 214 days this season. So if 1.9 million people went that averages to about 8,900 people a day. That doesn't seem like very many people. Does this count every different person who went to the park? If someone with a season pass went to the park ten times this season, did they get counted ten times or just once?
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So I want to ask the question because I am curious.
Is 1.9 Million a good number? I believe I remember they were topping 2 million back in the late 80's. Maybe my rememberer is broke.
It really does not seem like a lot when you consider the St. Louis cardinals do 3.5 Million on only 81 dates. And I think the Royals did close to 1.9 this year.
Also, Is this a paid attendance or a total? BAF's , comps and employee give away tickets might be included.
No offense, but I don't really see the comparison between two MLB teams and a regional theme park. Would you happen to know what Six Flags, WOF, or Dollywood does in a year? That seems like it might be a bit fairer. Secondly, I'm not disputing your figures, but if the Cardinals are doing 3.5milion per season, that would mean they are filling Busch almost 76 out of 81 dates. IIRC it seats around 46000.
The question of paid attendance is a valid one also. I'd like to know the answer to this also. I assume they are strictly counting bodies through the turnstiles but would like to know for certain.
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So, SDC was open 214 days this season. So if 1.9 million people went that averages to about 8,900 people a day. That doesn't seem like very many people. Does this count every different person who went to the park? If someone with a season pass went to the park ten times this season, did they get counted ten times or just once?
No it doesn't. I don't recall exactly what the figure is (I'm thinking it's 10k) when they come to the turnstiles and make a big to do about how many people have entered the park that day. We've been there more than once when that occurred mid morning.
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I can clear some things up...
1.9 was a goal... As a nation we are still in a "recession" and business have to scale down their expectations to obtainable goals. SDC first hit the 2 million mark in 1999 and had their best year in 2006 (they had a 25,000 person day that year).
A 9,000 person average sounds exactly right. The 10,000 guest celebration happens every day, around 1, so sorry to burst anyone's bubble who thought Terry and the gang was actually keeping count.
The turnstile count is every ticket that comes through the gate for the first time that day. All tickets are included (paid, comp, SP, ect...) Every entry after the first that day is counted as a reissue and is placed in a separate column that way they know how many have come through for the day and know how many are on park at any given time. (there is always error as the exit turnstiles do not capture everyone leaving but is good enough to make business decisions.
I hope this clears some things up.
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So, SDC was open 214 days this season. So if 1.9 million people went that averages to about 8,900 people a day. That doesn't seem like very many people. Does this count every different person who went to the park? If someone with a season pass went to the park ten times this season, did they get counted ten times or just once?
No it doesn't. I don't recall exactly what the figure is (I'm thinking it's 10k) when they come to the turnstiles and make a big to do about how many people have entered the park that day. We've been there more than once when that occurred mid morning.
I'm just saying that if the park had the same amount of people come every day they would've had about 8900 people every day this season. That obviously isn't true because more people will come to the park when it is 80 degrees in June than when it is 50 degrees in March and April. Also, more people will come on weekends than weekdays.
On Wikipedia they have a page of the top amusement parks by attendance and in 2013, Busch Gardens Williamsburg was at the bottom of the list (#20) for North America with 2,726,000 visitors. So I would guess that SDC has similar attendance numbers to other parks in the area. (Six Flags St. Louis, Dollywood, and Worlds of Fun) None of these parks made the list.
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I can clear some things up...
1.9 was a goal... As a nation we are still in a "recession" and business have to scale down their expectations to obtainable goals. SDC first hit the 2 million mark in 1999 and had their best year in 2006 (they had a 25,000 person day that year).
A 9,000 person average sounds exactly right. The 10,000 guest celebration happens every day, around 1, so sorry to burst anyone's bubble who thought Terry and the gang was actually keeping count.
The turnstile count is every ticket that comes through the gate for the first time that day. All tickets are included (paid, comp, SP, ect...) Every entry after the first that day is counted as a reissue and is placed in a separate column that way they know how many have come through for the day and know how many are on park at any given time. (there is always error as the exit turnstiles do not capture everyone leaving but is good enough to make business decisions.
I hope this clears some things up.
It does, with one exception:
A 9,000 person average sounds exactly right. The 10,000 guest celebration happens every day, around 1, so sorry to burst anyone's bubble who thought Terry and the gang was actually keeping count.
This happens every day, or you mean every day they actually have 10,000 guests? If it's every day then what is the point?
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I can clear some things up...
1.9 was a goal... As a nation we are still in a "recession" and business have to scale down their expectations to obtainable goals. SDC first hit the 2 million mark in 1999 and had their best year in 2006 (they had a 25,000 person day that year).
A 9,000 person average sounds exactly right. The 10,000 guest celebration happens every day, around 1, so sorry to burst anyone's bubble who thought Terry and the gang was actually keeping count.
The turnstile count is every ticket that comes through the gate for the first time that day. All tickets are included (paid, comp, SP, ect...) Every entry after the first that day is counted as a reissue and is placed in a separate column that way they know how many have come through for the day and know how many are on park at any given time. (there is always error as the exit turnstiles do not capture everyone leaving but is good enough to make business decisions.
I hope this clears some things up.
Thanks for clarifying, Hollywood.
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I would say Hollywood had it pretty well summed up.....
EXCEPT for 1 discrepancy:
HW claimed that SDC had a day over 25,000 people in 2006....
But the article quotes SDC as to having their first day of over 24,ooo people in 54 years of being open this year....?????
misprint?. misquote?
..
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I would say Hollywood had it pretty well summed up.....
EXCEPT for 1 discrepancy:
HW claimed that SDC had a day over 25,000 people in 2006....
But the article quotes SDC as to having their first day of over 24,ooo people in 54 years of being open this year....?????
misprint?. misquote?
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The story below was posted by Shave after that day, so I think the day in 2006 must have been lower than the day in August. Does anyone know how much higher the attendance was that day than the previous record?
http://sdcfans.com/silver-dollar-city-hits-single-day-attendance-record/
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So I want to ask the question because I am curious.
Is 1.9 Million a good number? I believe I remember they were topping 2 million back in the late 80's. Maybe my rememberer is broke.
It really does not seem like a lot when you consider the St. Louis cardinals do 3.5 Million on only 81 dates. And I think the Royals did close to 1.9 this year.
Also, Is this a paid attendance or a total? BAF's , comps and employee give away tickets might be included.
Here is the MLB chart for you. And yes the Cardinals sell out almost every game.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance
No offense, but I don't really see the comparison between two MLB teams and a regional theme park. Would you happen to know what Six Flags, WOF, or Dollywood does in a year? That seems like it might be a bit fairer. Secondly, I'm not disputing your figures, but if the Cardinals are doing 3.5milion per season, that would mean they are filling Busch almost 76 out of 81 dates. IIRC it seats around 46000.
The question of paid attendance is a valid one also. I'd like to know the answer to this also. I assume they are strictly counting bodies through the turnstiles but would like to know for certain.
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Great to hear they made their target for the year, but it probably should be increasingly worrying for us that SDC's attendance has remained fairly flat for the past 25 years. The market has been evolving rapidly over this period. I'm certain that SDC still has the highest attendance in Missouri as well as nearly the highest attendance out of most of the central U.S. outside of Sandusky, but everyone else is catching up.
The last time I saw really good comparison figures between the parks of Missouri was probably ten years or more ago, and back then SDC had more visitors than all the other parks in MO combined. That was before the Halloween Haunt events really started taking off, and the other parks were simply smaller in general. Somehow those parks, with all their seemingly anti-consumer issues, have continued a steady incline while SDC/Branson has been struggling to figure out where to go next for the last decade. These are parks that charge $20+ to park your car, have an extra $50+ charge to even get on the rides on busy days, and don't even make their parks into places that are that enjoyable outside of the rides.
So all in all, just looking at these numbers it seems like if you're the CEO of HFEC, a growing national entertainment conglomerate of which SDC is now just a single property within a massive portfolio, you're going to either start thinking about making massive changes at the park or simply focusing major investments to other properties for the foreseeable future. We already know that DW is experiencing rapid growth and therefore getting massive capital investments over the next decade, so they're already taking the latter route to some degree.
I just wonder how many years until they say screw it and just fill the place up with rides, give up any pretense of being a semi-realistic Ozarkan town, and start a halloween haunt event of their own. SDC has always been a signature attraction of the midwest, but as we've been discussing for the entire existence of this fansite, the customer base is rapidly changing in ways that are hard for SDC/Branson to adjust to without choosing between their core base of visitors and the new generation of potential visitors. 15 years ago when SDC invested in Wildfire it started adjusting the focus of the park to include basic rides similar to their competition, but in doing so they shoved a new wedge in their customer base that now views the park as just another amusement park and expects little more than the basic amusement park experience. This wedge keeps growing as the older generations who grew up with and appreciate the "old" SDC die off and the newer generation of visitors doesn't necessarily understand or appreciate what they're seeing.
I know this is another big rant, but I just don't get it. SDC is so good to the consumer, and the other parks are so bad. SDC has free parking, amazing staff, great food, great operations, great scenery, a great line-up of rides, the park is enjoyable to visit even if you don't ride anything, and yet attendance isn't growing by leaps and bounds each year. What's missing?
I think they need a new marketing push to show consumers what they're actually getting at SDC beyond just a bunch of rides. They also need to get back to setting themselves apart as an institution and a unique attraction. Branson also really needs to get it's crap together and HFEC should start putting more pressure on them. The town is a mess and while little things here and there get improved from time to time, the whole town needs a master plan implemented ASAP to get growth started again. There's a whole other long-running discussion there.
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The trouble might lie in consistency. Weekends in peak times are often at capacity. The biggest growth could come in the weekday crowds. How does the City attract more people to the weekdays?
Sometimes the focus is backwards. They offer more showtimes and events on weekends and work with minimal staff on weekdays. Perhaps deep discounts or other perks could spread out that crowd and attract more.
Unless they want to build in more space, sometimes getting a bigger crowd just isn't an option. Already Christmas is often more uncomfortable because of overcrowding on weekends.
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They could go the Sea World pricing route. Saturdays are more expensive to attend while middle of the week it is cheaper to go.
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Swoosh, now that you say that........ I have wondered why they don't do just that.. discount tues-wed-thurs...
I am sure that is why they are doing the 30 or 40 dollar Thursdays, with coupons or coke cans or whatever...
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The celebration happens everyday that warrants a family to have front of the line access. The park may hit 10,000 that day, but hardly ever at the time of celebration. So on a cold rainy day in November they will not have the 10,000 guest celebration. But on an weekday during summer, when the attendance hardly ever reaches 10,000 they will have it. Remember the 9,000 is an average. Several others have already said it. The numbers skew big time during Christmas. When you are only open 3-4 days a week, and two of those days are 20,000 plus, your average shoots up pretty fast!
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Oh and as for the 25,000 day in 2006... I was there. December 16 2006, My apple dumpling stand ran out of product (the one that use to be by the flooded mine exit). I could not get to the Red Gold to get more but it did not matter anyway because they had none either!
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My apple dumpling stand ran out of product (the one that use to be by the flooded mine exit). I could not get to the Red Gold to get more but it did not matter anyway because they had none either!
HATE it when that happens!!!!
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I think the root problem is Branson it's self. Branson is a dying town of old washed up singers. If things are going to turn around things will have to change to meet the demands of a younger generation.
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I think the root problem is Branson it's self. Branson is a dying town of old washed up singers. If things are going to turn around things will have to change to meet the demands of a younger generation.
I don't know if it is the "root" of the problem, Although for sure a major contributor.. But I do agree with the rest of your statement..
They could cater to ALL age demographics IF they would just do it.
Time for a "management" change in Branson.
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Branson needs to change or sdc needs to move white water out to by sdc and put a hotel between them making their own destination.
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Branson needs to change or sdc needs to move white water out to by sdc and put a hotel between them making their own destination.
Not only move Whitewater and build a hotel but that hotel needs it's own indoor waterpark for year round operation. We have taken three Feb weekend getaways in a row till this year to some kind of indoor waterpark till this year due to a Florida trip. We'll likely hit the Wilderness at the Smokies in Oct as part of a road game trip against Tenn along with our season pass discount at SDC.
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If they're going to do that - might as well move the SBB's dock out to Indian Point too. In fact - why doesn't SDC just buy that condo land down there and make it a Dream More Resort.
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Or they could buy the failed Indian Ridge development that connects to SDC's property. Lots of good opportunities they could move on right now, but Celebration City sure poisoned the well for the time being. Just doesn't make sense for them to make any massive investment in Branson when they've only begun setting up DW to be their true signature property. Maybe by the end of the decade though, if DreamMore turns out well...
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Well... PTB have mentioned that if Branson continues to have issues they (SDC) would have to take matters into their own hands and become more of a resort destination then just a complimentive property to the town. SDC has always tried to play the "good neighbor" role (one reason why the park has never really had a night life) but I'm starting to get the feeling those days are becoming numbered as SDC becomes THE reason people even cone to the area.
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Yep, large motel/resort, indoor waterpark, small selection of restauraunts, maybe some retail shops?. Trams interconnecting it all together, maybe even an indoor theatre for some live entertainment.
oh my, the options are endless......
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Yep, large motel/resort, indoor waterpark, small selection of restauraunts, maybe some retail shops?. Trams interconnecting it all together, maybe even an indoor theatre for some live entertainment.
oh my, the options are endless......
I've ranted on about this before but the CC area is prime for this. Ala carte rides(coaster, star flyer, giant wheel)restaurants, entertainment like dine in movies and bowling for kids and bowling for adult like King Bowl in Orlando. Add in some retail and casual eateries and other types of attractions(seasonal spook houses and Christmas Enchanted Forest type things). The Island in Pigeon Forge seems to be pulling some of that off.
With the purchase of the Globetrotters, I will throw out the 3,000 to 4,500 seat arena with attached hotel idea again where they bring in the arena shows like the Disney on Ices, Ringling Bros, concerts by artists in the charts in real time not two decades ago and other things and fill in with home stands with the
Globetrotters. I'm taking my son to Little Rock this Sat for the Marvel Universe Live show. Branson is nearly two hours closer. You got an MSA of now over 500,000 in NWA, 300,000 in the River Valley and the Springfield area and that's not including weekend getaway marketing to Tulsa, St. Louis, Little Rock, Memphis, OKC, Topeka, and KC to name a few.
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Moving out to SDC is a bad idea as things stand now. The biggest thing is that the current roads will not handle the additional traffic. 76 is overloaded now and adding the additional traffic out there in the summer would only add to the chaos. Could you imagine Indian point road handling both SDC traffic and Whitewater at the same time. When they constructed this it was a good idea but they must have hired a low budget engineering firm because the layout is awful. Not sure if MoDot or Herschend did the design. I also do not see the state outplaying any money right now for any major road improvement in that area. It would basically be a revenue wash for the state as far as tax income goes and MODOT is hurting for revenue right now. Just not a good time to ask taxpayers to subsidise a private company. I agree though that it should all be moved to the old CC site. Lots of opportunity there.
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Living in the Branson area for several months now has me a bit of a new perspective on what I once thought of as simply a vacation town. I do agree with the several of you who have said that Branson's entertainment industry has got to start broadening its reach. I think the Landing was one of the first attempts at doing so. However, that is definitely not enough. More modern musical acts need to be brought in, and I think that one or two like Christian and/or Southern rock bands, along the lines of Red and 3 Doors Down, would help cater to a younger crowd. Granted its not likely you would actually get those specific bands here but those styles of music are what I'm thinking. There's nothing wrong with the musicians here now but but younger and more modern is needed to get the younger crowds to come here.
Developing the old CC area is also critical. Chittlins has the right idea. The city needs a different aspect to its nightlife besides the shows. Repurpose some of the rides and attractions at CC and add some shopping and restaurants as a sort of evening attraction for families. Then also add the arena but maybe build it with a retractable roof to make it a bit different so it could have indoor/outdoor events, which ties into my own idea.
I know Springfield has the Cardinals but Branson should look into getting a minor league team of its own. Personally speaking I'd love for it to be a hockey team, but a football team would be better, whether it be like arena league or a small independent league. The season for a football team like would more closely coincide with the spring or fall times. They have short seasons with usually four to six home games. That would also bring more people to the CC site for pre- and post-game activities.
And finally the city needs to find a way to get more year round activities. Just driving down 76 today in the middle of the afternoon made the area look really depressed with everything shut down. I'm not sure what could be brought in or done to help with this time of year but there has to be something. Just a few ideas I had to help the area.
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Living in the Branson area for several months now has me a bit of a new perspective on what I once thought of as simply a vacation town. I do agree with the several of you who have said that Branson's entertainment industry has got to start broadening its reach. I think the Landing was one of the first attempts at doing so. However, that is definitely not enough. More modern musical acts need to be brought in, and I think that one or two like Christian and/or Southern rock bands, along the lines of Red and 3 Doors Down, would help cater to a younger crowd. Granted its not likely you would actually get those specific bands here but those styles of music are what I'm thinking. There's nothing wrong with the musicians here now but but younger and more modern is needed to get the younger crowds to come here.
Developing the old CC area is also critical. Chittlins has the right idea. The city needs a different aspect to its nightlife besides the shows. Repurpose some of the rides and attractions at CC and add some shopping and restaurants as a sort of evening attraction for families. Then also add the arena but maybe build it with a retractable roof to make it a bit different so it could have indoor/outdoor events, which ties into my own idea.
I know Springfield has the Cardinals but Branson should look into getting a minor league team of its own. Personally speaking I'd love for it to be a hockey team, but a football team would be better, whether it be like arena league or a small independent league. The season for a football team like would more closely coincide with the spring or fall times. They have short seasons with usually four to six home games. That would also bring more people to the CC site for pre- and post-game activities.
And finally the city needs to find a way to get more year round activities. Just driving down 76 today in the middle of the afternoon made the area look really depressed with everything shut down. I'm not sure what could be brought in or done to help with this time of year but there has to be something. Just a few ideas I had to help the area.
I've said this all before, the proliferation of regional casinos and then turning them into mini resorts has nailed Branson. I catch a few bands at Hard Rock in Tulsa, I never gamble, just go to the shows. They are always offering me comp tickets for a hotel package. Here's where it hurts Branson, go to The Joint Tulsa's website and you'll see Loretta Lynn listed as a performer, that was once Branson's wheelhouse, Kenny Rogers was there recently along with a host of other country names. Now, add in the fact that other casino's in Tunica, KC and elsewhere are booking those names, Branson is irrelevant.
You mention rock acts, Christian acts and so on. Well, that's Magic Springs Saturday wheelhouse and it's what keeps them open. Here's some of 2015's musical acts that included with ticket price. Three Doors Down, Newsboys, Charlie Daniels Band, Jon Jett, Randy Houser and more to be announced. I seem to recall that area where Celebration City did it's little closing light show that would have been a neat place for that kind of thing. Better yet, look at this upcoming park's idea.
(http://www.blooloop.com/userfiles/content/images/Articles/Adventure%20Pointe/Downtown%20Adventure%20Pointe%20300.jpg)
What's that, oh it's an indoor theater with the ability to open up to the rear to become an outdoor amp.
There' so many possibilities for the Celebration City area and I'm kinda pissed HFE hasn't done a darn thing with it. It screams a combination of a free admission FEC like the Fun Spots in Orlando area that offers ala carte rides or a an unlimited ride wristband and places like Kemah Boardwalk and The Island in Pigeon Forge along with entertainment district type things like themed restaurants, Dave and Buster's like venues, and all the other stuff I've posted relentlessly.
Your suggestion of what to do the get folks there in the winter, well there's that legit indoor waterpark that's really missing, I've posted on the whole Snowflex complex thing for year round snow boarding and tubing. I've posted that there's no ice rink in the area that fits the season and how that could be a part of a revamped Celebration City, in the summer it's simply a splash pad area.
Everyone on this board knows Whitewater is woefully behind the times when it comes to waterparks. Clean yes, but missing so much stuff that's becoming staples in the industry. Add that issue to ever growing municipal facilities like the one here in Rogers and the one Ft. Smith with open up and you have to wow the locals to come. The place doesn't even have a flowrider the last time I looked, come on folks, there's no excuse for that. We don't give Whitewater much of a thought.
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A casino resort on the Landing could bring additional revenue and a larger crowd to the Branson area. A minor league stadium would be a good addition. The music shows have decreased in attendance. We need new marketing ideas.
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A casino resort on the Landing could bring additional revenue and a larger crowd to the Branson area. A minor league stadium would be a good addition. The music shows have decreased in attendance. We need new marketing ideas.
I think that could be a viable idea too, just in a different location. Its too crowded down there for a casino resort. A site somewhere on or around Table Rock would be better I think.
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Highly unlikely you will see casinos in Branson anytime soon. Pete Herschend said in an interview a couple years ago that CC property won't be renovated until MODOT does massive road upgrading west of Branson. I think the casinos will eventually get to town just not for the next few years.
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Highly unlikely you will see casinos in Branson anytime soon. Pete Herschend said in an interview a couple years ago that CC property won't be renovated until MODOT does massive road upgrading west of Branson. I think the casinos will eventually get to town just not for the next few years.
And with the financial troubles MODoT is currently having, the highly absurd toll they want to place on 70 being evidence of that, it could easily be ten years before anything happens with that site. That makes me afraid the entire Branson area could really suffer.
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Highly unlikely you will see casinos in Branson anytime soon. Pete Herschend said in an interview a couple years ago that CC property won't be renovated until MODOT does massive road upgrading west of Branson. I think the casinos will eventually get to town just not for the next few years.
Never said Branson need casinos, that ship sailed, just that casinos elsewhere is killing a demographic that Branson once enjoyed.
Good luck with Mdot, their priority is finding the money to complete I-49 to the Ark line now that Ark is finally building the Bella Vista segment.
As for US 412 on Branson access from Arkansas, it's now four lane, divided from Springdale to Huntsville with the bids for the first segment of the Springdale bypass about to be put out for bid. It'll run from Lowell to Cave Springs. Arkansas's statehouse now has a strong NWA influence.
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Why on CC land? Keep it all out at SDC area to build up the resort
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Everyone on this board knows Whitewater is woefully behind the times when it comes to waterparks. Clean yes, but missing so much stuff that's becoming staples in the industry. Add that issue to ever growing municipal facilities like the one here in Rogers and the one Ft. Smith with open up and you have to wow the locals to come. The place doesn't even have a flowrider the last time I looked, come on folks, there's no excuse for that. We don't give Whitewater much of a thought.
HFE chose a bad place to build White Water. The park has no room for more rides unless you tear other rides down. The CC site would be a good place to move the park to. Then, if you build a hotel by SDC, guests can go to White Water without having to drive through Branson. Also, you wouldn't get White Water and SDC traffic at SDC.
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HFE chose a bad place to build White Water.
White Water opened in 1981. 34 Years ago, way before most of the development in Branson. At the time it was in the perfect spot. Branson just kind of grew up around it.
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HFE chose a bad place to build White Water.
White Water opened in 1981. 34 Years ago, way before most of the development in Branson. At the time it was in the perfect spot. Branson just kind of grew up around it.
I didn't realize it was built 34 years ago, and i understand it may have been the end of the strip back then. But, I think HFE still could've predicted growth in Branson. I guess I'm glad they didn't build White Water at SDC in 1981, because then we would probably have a situation like Valleyfair where the water park is in the midddle of the park. I like White Water even though they don't have many of the new things in water parks.
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I don't have time to look back through the boards for the history, but wasn't White Water built in partnership with a development firm that quickly split off of what was then SDC Corp.? Back when it was built SDC was not the "theme park" it is today, and it might not have been successful out there on it's own. SDC wasn't at the stage yet where it was ready to become a theme park resort. Around the same time they also built White Water Bay in OKC, and possibly one other property?
Getting SDC to build it's own resort+moving WW would actually be beneficial for traffic. A number of people would just stay within the resort instead of driving in and out at opening and closing time each day. White Water doesn't exactly attract huge crowds, and most of them overlap with SDC crowds anyway. They would need more parking, or even a parking garage though.
Honestly, a resort is ultimately going to be the main solution to some of their growth problems. You can't do too much to increase traffic capacity through a single intersection unless you just turn it into a highway. Having a single place people could arrive at and just stay put would make a lot of people much happier and more likely to visit routinely. Having to go into Branson itself is a drag for people many families who don't want to deal with the traffic and sprawl.
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I don't have time to look back through the boards for the history, but wasn't White Water built in partnership with a development firm that quickly split off of what was then SDC Corp.? Back when it was built SDC was not the "theme park" it is today, and it might not have been successful out there on it's own. SDC wasn't at the stage yet where it was ready to become a theme park resort. Around the same time they also built White Water Bay in OKC, and possibly one other property?
Getting SDC to build it's own resort+moving WW would actually be beneficial for traffic. A number of people would just stay within the resort instead of driving in and out at opening and closing time each day. White Water doesn't exactly attract huge crowds, and most of them overlap with SDC crowds anyway. They would need more parking, or even a parking garage though.
Honestly, a resort is ultimately going to be the main solution to some of their growth problems. You can't do too much to increase traffic capacity through a single intersection unless you just turn it into a highway. Having a single place people could arrive at and just stay put would make a lot of people much happier and more likely to visit routinely. Having to go into Branson itself is a drag for people many families who don't want to deal with the traffic and sprawl.
Adventure River in Memphis off of Whitten Road. Profitable place but land turned much more valuable later on for other things and closed. Memphis has been without a waterpark since.
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Getting SDC to build it's own resort+moving WW would actually be beneficial for traffic. A number of people would just stay within the resort instead of driving in and out at opening and closing time each day. White Water doesn't exactly attract huge crowds, and most of them overlap with SDC crowds anyway. They would need more parking, or even a parking garage though.
Honestly, a resort is ultimately going to be the main solution to some of their growth problems. You can't do too much to increase traffic capacity through a single intersection unless you just turn it into a highway. Having a single place people could arrive at and just stay put would make a lot of people much happier and more likely to visit routinely. Having to go into Branson itself is a drag for people many families who don't want to deal with the traffic and sprawl.
I don't know if a resort would lessen traffic it would just split it into different times of the day, making it less of a problem. You would get the people who still want to stay in Branson coming in at SDC opening and leaving at closing. Then, you would have the people staying at the resort who would be coming and going at hotel check-in and check-out times.
If they do build a resort and move White Water someday, they would definitely need to get more trams/buses to handle all the people wanting to go to SDC, then White Water, then back to the hotel. Another thing they could do if they built a resort would be to have the parks open earlier and later just for resort guests. Then more people would stay at the resort so they can be at the parks longer. They would bring in more money by having more people at the resort, and if people are at the parks longer they're more likely to buy more food, merchandise, etc.
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WW opened in 1980, the first water park in the state. It was well situated then, but they are now hemmed in. Unless road upgrades were made there would be massive traffic issues on Indian Point. Would it be b etter to move WW to the CC property and build other attractions around it? It would give everything a chance to grow and expand. What could be developed on the WW property?
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WW opened in 1980, the first water park in the state. It was well situated then, but they are now hemmed in. Unless road upgrades were made there would be massive traffic issues on Indian Point. Would it be b etter to move WW to the CC property and build other attractions around it? It would give everything a chance to grow and expand. What could be developed on the WW property?
That's a good point I didn't think of. If SDC moved WW to SDC, HFE would then have two empty properties in Branson. The current WW location wouldn't be a good place to have a big, empty lot. That location would have to be developed quickly.
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Getting SDC to build it's own resort+moving WW would actually be beneficial for traffic. A number of people would just stay within the resort instead of driving in and out at opening and closing time each day. White Water doesn't exactly attract huge crowds, and most of them overlap with SDC crowds anyway. They would need more parking, or even a parking garage though.
Honestly, a resort is ultimately going to be the main solution to some of their growth problems. You can't do too much to increase traffic capacity through a single intersection unless you just turn it into a highway. Having a single place people could arrive at and just stay put would make a lot of people much happier and more likely to visit routinely. Having to go into Branson itself is a drag for people many families who don't want to deal with the traffic and sprawl.
I don't know if a resort would lessen traffic it would just split it into different times of the day, making it less of a problem. You would get the people who still want to stay in Branson coming in at SDC opening and leaving at closing. Then, you would have the people staying at the resort who would be coming and going at hotel check-in and check-out times.
If they do build a resort and move White Water someday, they would definitely need to get more trams/buses to handle all the people wanting to go to SDC, then White Water, then back to the hotel. Another thing they could do if they built a resort would be to have the parks open earlier and later just for resort guests. Then more people would stay at the resort so they can be at the parks longer. They would bring in more money by having more people at the resort, and if people are at the parks longer they're more likely to buy more food, merchandise, etc.
It would take a ton of hotel rooms to affect traffic patterns either way. This aint no Disney we are talking about here. If a water park was to be built on a top tier level they would need a lot more than daily hotel stays to keep it feasible. And then you have the possibility of another company building back in town and taking that market.
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Getting SDC to build it's own resort+moving WW would actually be beneficial for traffic. A number of people would just stay within the resort instead of driving in and out at opening and closing time each day. White Water doesn't exactly attract huge crowds, and most of them overlap with SDC crowds anyway. They would need more parking, or even a parking garage though.
Honestly, a resort is ultimately going to be the main solution to some of their growth problems. You can't do too much to increase traffic capacity through a single intersection unless you just turn it into a highway. Having a single place people could arrive at and just stay put would make a lot of people much happier and more likely to visit routinely. Having to go into Branson itself is a drag for people many families who don't want to deal with the traffic and sprawl.
I don't know if a resort would lessen traffic it would just split it into different times of the day, making it less of a problem. You would get the people who still want to stay in Branson coming in at SDC opening and leaving at closing. Then, you would have the people staying at the resort who would be coming and going at hotel check-in and check-out times.
If they do build a resort and move White Water someday, they would definitely need to get more trams/buses to handle all the people wanting to go to SDC, then White Water, then back to the hotel. Another thing they could do if they built a resort would be to have the parks open earlier and later just for resort guests. Then more people would stay at the resort so they can be at the parks longer. They would bring in more money by having more people at the resort, and if people are at the parks longer they're more likely to buy more food, merchandise, etc.
It would take a ton of hotel rooms to affect traffic patterns either way. This aint no Disney we are talking about here. If a water park was to be built on a top tier level they would need a lot more than daily hotel stays to keep it feasible. And then you have the possibility of another company building back in town and taking that market.
I get what you're saying. But, it would be stupid for a company to build another water park in the area when the current one doesn't seem to be very busy whenever I've been there in May and July.
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The property that WW sits on is owned by the city, not HFE. In fact, the plot of land use to be flat. The Herschends built the hilly terrain to accomodate their original attractions the Bermuta Triangle, Typhoon Tunnel, and Hurricane Rapids.
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The property that WW sits on is owned by the city, not HFE. In fact, the plot of land use to be flat. The herschends built the hilly terrain to build the Bermuta Triangle, Typhoon Tunnel, and Hurricane Rapids.
So Herschend owns the park, but not the land? Or does Branson own the park too?
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HFEC leases the land but owns the park. As for the land once WW is moved, I imagine Ballparks of America would absorb it. Not too big of a stretch to consider.
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HFEC leases the land but owns the park. As for the land once WW is moved, I imagine Ballparks of America would absorb it. Not too big of a stretch to consider.
Are you saying WW will be moved?
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Would this be a bad time to mention the aquarium coming to the CC site in the near future or should I sit on that information awhile longer?
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Swoosh and a few others on this site do have some inside information. However, most of us are just throwing our ideas and questions out for discussion. I am unaware of any near future plans to move WW. As a former employee with some friends still working for the company I sometimes hear some interesting behind the scenes talk, but not much has come from it. When you see a press release released about changes, you know that is true. :)
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I fnd it funny we are having this discussion on the "Park meets attendance foals for 2014" forum.
Would this be a bad time to mention the aquarium coming to the CC site in the near future or should I sit on that information awhile longer?
Well you just mentioned it. And are you supposed be telling us these things?
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You'll soon realize that our threads rarely stay on topic past the initial page.
As far as the aquarium, the city (not that long ago) approached a certain magical company about bringing an aquarium to town. What I heard was that HFEC caught wind of it and let the town know that they had their own plans of bringing one to town. Now granted things change and no time frame was mentioned but there you go.
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HFEC leases the land but owns the park. As for the land once WW is moved, I imagine Ballparks of America would absorb it. Not too big of a stretch to consider.
Are you saying WW will be moved?
Not in the near future, no. It has been talked about though. The park is horribly landlocked, but honestly most of the current attractions (with the exception of the wave pool) could be moved easily to a new site.
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HFEC leases the land but owns the park. As for the land once WW is moved, I imagine Ballparks of America would absorb it. Not too big of a stretch to consider.
Are you saying WW will be moved?
Not in the near future, no. It has been talked about though. The park is horribly landlocked, but honestly most of the current attractions (with the exception of the wave pool) could be moved easily to a new site.
Well maybe they could get a wave pool that actually has some good waves, and ya you can't expand much when you have roads on three sides of you and parking lot on the other.
As far as the aquarium, the city (not that long ago) approached a certain magical company about bringing an aquarium to town. What I heard was that HFEC caught wind of it and let the town know that they had their own plans of bringing one to town. Now granted things change and no time frame was mentioned but there you go.
Well this is the seventh year there's just been a lonely roller coaster sitting there. But, are they planning on just having an aquarium? I don't think I would stop and pay just to see a bunch of fish.
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You'll soon realize that our threads rarely stay on topic past the initial page.
Eh, the topic is about what HFEC can do to make attendance numbers keep moving up in the future and how Branson in general affects that, so it's a wide topic.
As far as the aquarium, the city (not that long ago) approached a certain magical company about bringing an aquarium to town. What I heard was that HFEC caught wind of it and let the town know that they had their own plans of bringing one to town. Now granted things change and no time frame was mentioned but there you go.
I've also caught wind of this from a few people who would know, but there are so many rumors about HFEC looking into various things with the CC site that I'm wary of putting too much stock into any given rumor. I'm know they've seriously looked into a number of options. A few years ago I pointed out a proposal from a firm that specializes in thematic experiences to turn the place into a zoo/theme park ala' busch gardens. It was only a proposal though, used as part of the firm's portfolio, hence why it was viewable online. I'm sure they've looked into a la carte rides and putting a resort hotel on the place as well.
An aquarium wouldn't surprise me at all, but Ripley's has been poking that idea around for over a decade now already. They wanted to put one on the lakefront down near where the landing is back around 2003. I think they stopped talking about it during the downturn, but it sounds like they're back at it again. Aquariums are becoming one of their larger line of attractions (http://www.ripleys.com/attractions/). There's also now a growing aquarium out at "Wild World" next to Walmart. If HFEC wanted to barge into all of this and make their own aquarium work, it'd have to be pretty big, and have an extra hook to it (like maybe a wooden coaster on the side?). Somehow I feel like this option will ultimately be passed over as well.
The CC site is marked as a major development zone on the Spirit of 76 conceptual plan. With the local economy gearing up again and more and more pressure on Branson to get things moving or be left behind, SOMETHING will happen with the property soon, and I'm pretty sure HFEC will be the one to do it since they don't want to miss the opportunity and bring in another competitor. I'm not sold on any of the rumors yet though.
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I have always said that a Aquarium with a mixed use development surrounding it, ice skating in the winter and maybe some bunny slope skiing for the winter months would be a great use for that area. The sad fact is HFEC will sit on it before they let anyone come in and develop it.
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I have always said that a Aquarium with a mixed use development surrounding it, ice skating in the winter and maybe some bunny slope skiing for the winter months would be a great use for that area.
Bingo
The sad fact is HFEC will sit on it before they let anyone come in and develop it.
Bingo.
I suppose this discussion started as a means to explore how SDC could grow attendance and that it's now the dead of winter and there's nothing much to do here or in Branson
I hate that The Tracks are a hodge podge of properties, I think they could be so much more with one central location. I love what some of the FECs are morphing into like the Fun Spots in the Orlando area.
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Thanks Chittlins!! LOL.,.
I have been waiting for days for someone to bring up how far "off topic" we are.!! ;D
do I care? NO.. just love the way it happens and then it just ROLLS downhill!!!!!!
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Swoosh, throwing out the term "magical" is dangerous and may be linked to big ears when I think you mean some bearded man that hung out around some court in England and why would he do that with a condo in KC. Now if SeaWorld was to come up with an Aquarium and Sesame Place combo like Lego aND Sealife with maybe a Sesame St. themed hotel with an indoor waterpark and small theater for character live shows......
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I, too, believe it is very dangroup.
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I don't think I would stop and pay just to see a bunch of fish.
You may not, but other will and lots of them. Both times we've been to Gatlinburg we visited Ripley's Aquarium of the Smokies and both times it was packed. And that was with tickets in $25 per person range as I recall.
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I, too, believe it is very dangroup.
love the smart phone, I do.
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I don't think I would stop and pay just to see a bunch of fish.
You may not, but other will and lots of them. Both times we've been to Gatlinburg we visited Ripley's Aquarium of the Smokies and both times it was packed. And that was with tickets in $25 per person range as I recall.
Here's the deal, I'm for an aquarium as long as it differentiates itself from all the others. Plus, while it's a long time coming, there's basically one opening up in the WOW complex at Bass Pro, complete with a Manatee rehab center. I've been to dozens with the kids and they are all starting to run together.
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WOW has been "under construction" for about 10 years now and if that's part of their aquarium plan I won't be holding my breath for one there. I agree that they probably do seem the same but where is a another one close to the Branson area, or even in the Midwest in general?
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This is one problem with all the entertainment complexes cropping up everywhere. You basically get a cookie cutter they all look alike complex and none of them really differentiates themselves from another. Kind of like driving down a interstate and all the exits for every town looks the same. It is also why I have been critical of Fireman's Landing. A bunch of off the shelf stuff you can get at any traveling carnival. Same with flat rides for me. Boring to the max whatever kind of plastic facade you throw on them. At one time SDC was trying to be innovative and with Outlaw Run I was optimistic they were getting back in that thinking mode. To really get attendance back or increase they are going to need to get more creative again.